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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"You are proposing the “because” based on her own personal merits"

Not at all. I am proposing that she was predestined to be the Mother of Our Savior, and everything she had, including her holiness, was a gift from Him "Who did great things for her."

There's no such thing as "personal merits" in some sense isolated from God. He certainly gives greater and gives less, as He wills. Jesus said of John the Baptist, "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Greater and lesser are both gifts.

Our Lord's remark about the "biological reductionism" of His Mother to womb and breasts, in no way reduces the honor she has as one who "heard the word of God and kept it." She heard it so well it entered her, and she got pregnant with God.

It saddens me that you take eery opportunity to belittle her who was so honored by Him. Surely He observed, and still observes the Commandment to honor His Mother. It gives me joy to do so. How beautiful she is!

101 posted on 10/12/2013 6:40:19 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Chaire, Kecharitomene.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Do you think Mary’s mother knew Mary was predestined to be the Mother of Our Savior? Or her father?


108 posted on 10/12/2013 6:53:26 PM PDT by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; All

“It saddens me that you take eery opportunity to belittle her who was so honored by Him.”


Keep in mind, this is a leap you’ve made, most likely due to the weakness of your claim. I never belittled her at all. I simply pointed out that, if you claim she is holy because of her relationship with Christ, or holy because she received it from God but at the same time received it from herself, it is a contradiction. If it is all from God, as you seem to assert, then you do well, and I do not dislike it, since it follows that all whom God saves have the noticeable marks of righteousness that follows all Christians. Though I would still dispute if you are meaning to say that she is spotless of sin by God’s gift, since all men are sinners, even those who receive it from the Father to keep His word.

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

“Our Lord’s remark about the “biological reductionism” of His Mother to womb and breasts, in no way reduces the honor she has as one who “heard the word of God and kept it.” She heard it so well it entered her, and she got pregnant with God.”


Certainly it reduces her from the Roman Catholic heights, which imagine her as “the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven,” or that she stands in the throne room of judgment, and leaps in to save sinners from Christ’s judgment, based on the number of rosaries prayed.

I do not diminish the unique blessing of being the mother of the Lord. I simply reduce her from being your God, since it does not follow that she “gave birth to Jesus,” therefore “she saves us from Jesus Christ through her intercession.”


110 posted on 10/12/2013 6:53:57 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (If anyone tells you it's a cookbook, don't believe them.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Wow a predestination Catholic! We have loads to discuss:)


117 posted on 10/12/2013 7:05:38 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Greetings_Puny_Humans
It saddens me that you take eery opportunity to belittle her who was so honored by Him. Surely He observed, and still observes the Commandment to honor His Mother. It gives me joy to do so. How beautiful she is!

Comments like the former are specious, as the "belittlement" is in response to an artificial exaltation of Mary not seen in Scripture. It saddens me that RC's take so many opportunities to exalt Mary far above the honor given to her by the Lord. "We must never adore her; that is for God alone. But otherwise we cannot honor her to excess." ("What the church teaches,” by Monsignor J.D. Conway)

The Spirit of Christ censures thinking of "men above that which is written," (1 Corinthians 4:6) and while Catholics cannot be said to have done so with the apostle Paul, whose sacrificial labor, love, sufferings and integrity the Holy Spirit spends far more on describing than holy Mary, who is rather marginalized in the gospels (without taking away her due honor);

yet going far beyond what is written Catholics almost defify her with the parallels to Christ ascribed to her, and teach she is ascended to Heaven, and already crowned (which happens after the resurrection) and enthroned as Queen of Heaven with almost unlimited power, including having the ability to process virtually unlimited prayer requests, (the Holy Spirit provides zero examples of prayer to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, or in its instructions on who to pray to), and who is even set forth by some notable Catholics as a more immediate and superior recourse for help than Christ Himself.

And as we also oppose the egregious extrapolations of Mormons (who also held a doctrine of a heavenly mother), so we must oppose these additions to Scripture.

211 posted on 10/13/2013 10:45:45 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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