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To: Arthur McGowan

Don't add to the Gospel which was originally preached. How's that?

I would give chapter and verse, and a whole lot more -- but why should I bother?

Show me where in the scripture, or in the earliest writings of church notables, any mention of "the immaculate heart of Mary", or why anything should be "dedicated" or "consecrated" to her?

This "hyper-dulia" of Mary is so far out of the Judeo portion of the Judeo-Christian construct, it's not funny at all.

Did the Lord's revelations to the Jews include both the Law, and the promises? Or was He short-changing them, all along?

Christ Himself was "The Word" made flesh, according to the apostle John. Christ did not tell us to hyper-venerate his own earthly mother, but instead, clearly pointed away from anyone doing so.

Did any of the Apostles demonstrate "hyper-veneration" of Mary?

Not even the Apostle John, whom did indeed outlive her, in worldly existence.

The woman in Revelation, seen travailing in childbirth --- Mary can be seen to have lived that role in human form, but the deeper meaning of that image carries far beyond the personage of Mary, herself, to the heart of the church which was from most primitive times, first those longing for God among the Jews, then later, the wider church itself (which church has at all times been much larger than as Rome once defined it to be herself [the RCC proper] at exclusion of all else, yet now, if there be the tiniest squeak of "spirit" of God anywhere, has extended her singular [RCC] grasp of claim to include that to be also "subject to" her and her own singular bishop, above all else, regardless if the bishop is a creep -- or not.

That was not the original template of "the church", but it IS the Romanist template.

At the same time, as to anything that could be seen to embarrass or contradict that claim of being the be-all-to-end-all, well then, it's just "people" then, and not the [RC] "church" at all.

Stick with the original Gospel. If there be question of what that is -- compare the first couple of generations of the church, with the perspective of the original Apostles, taking care to weigh the words of Christ from Hebrew religious perspective, foremost. The Apostle Paul was a great help in that effort of perspective. Then, once one examines the OT and the NT through lens of Paul, try to turn that around and interpret Paul from lens of OT.

Can anything like the semi-deification of Mary be found in that process? Since it can not, what is found in that wider examination, what wider sense does one get that precludes the hyper-veneration of Mary?

Do you not know the Word of God? Hear Oh Israel, our God is One.

Is that not enough? Was the fulfillment of the law, along with the illumination of what the law actually meant -- not enough?

Marian expert Tim Tindal-Robertson, can go pound sand. This entire thread is just another of a long line of cunningly diversionary Cult of Mary codswallop, minus the dollops of Mary's breastmilk.

136 posted on 10/11/2013 2:52:30 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)


145 posted on 10/11/2013 6:59:50 PM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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