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Posted on 10/11/2013 9:11:50 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Vatican City, Oct 11, 2013 / 07:25 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Anticipating Pope Francis' entrustment of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on Oct. 13, a specialist in Marian apparitions reflected on how the Blessed Mother serves to bring people to Jesus.
“It is necessary to have recourse to the Virgin because she can only bring you to God. That's her whole mission. She has nothing of self in it at all. She lives only for God and to bring you to God,” said Marian expert Tim Tindal-Robertson during an Oct. 10 interview with CNA.
Tindal-Robertson is currently the national president in England of the World Apostolate of Fatima, an international association of the faithful which was erected by the Pontifical Council for the Laity in 2010.
Speaking of the significance of Pope Francis’ decision to entrust the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Tindal-Robertson said that “the Pope has judged that in the year of faith this is a very appropriate moment” to focus on Mary’s presence in the Church.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...
The only "authority" passed on to other Christians was of the message, the truths of the Christian faith as taught by Christ TO the Apostles and disciples and revealed to them by the Holy Spirit after the ascension of Christ. The "church" is supposed to be the bulwark and support of that truth - not the inventors of it. We were given sacred, divinely-inspired Scripture so that we could have that rule of faith in a form that was secure from man-made changes and perversion. That is why Paul was able to say:
Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer. (II Thess. 3:14,15)
The "children of the Reformers" agree with the Reformers that denied any authority of men which sought to deny the truths preached to the believers from the start. If one researches what the Reformers objected to with the Roman Catholic Church it was in areas where the faith "once delivered unto the saints" had been obscured or twisted. It was in areas where the church of Rome asserted she alone had the power to change the gospel and have authority OVER the word of God - by which ALL Christian truths are to be measured.
Actually, it has been my attempts to have civil, intellectual discussions that usually result in RC name calling/character attacks, and or just pictures in lieu of an needed argument. Or pleading incomprehension, evading the issue, etc (wants some links to such?), or rejection of any source that impugns Rome. Including statistics that show Catholics to be the most liberal. Media bias you know.
No, we are not saying that. But when Christ gave the Great Commission to go forth and teach all nations, he gave his teaching authority to one Church. To Peter and His disciples. The selection of what constitutes Biblical text was one such authority.
Jesus is not a product of creation. He with the Father and the Holy Spirit was there from the beginning of time. Jesus came down on earth to partake in our sufferings and offer his passion and death to the Father so that after the fall of Adam and Even the gates of Heaven can once again be opened for us mortals to follow His teachings, His Church, and secure eternal salvation. And of all creation, God chose Mary as the purest of all humanity for the Word to becomes Flesh so that He may dwell amongst us. I thought you’d know this by now.
Don't eat blood. The life is in the blood.
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, andfrom what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
The bible...
Mary was the tabernacle of the Christ. The Mother of God.
Mary is never call the tabernacle of Jesus...Another Catholic fantasy...
Only low information fools depend on their faith on Scripture alone.
HaHaHa, True...The bible calls us born again Christians...We derive our information from God...
The curse of the Reformation has spawned 35,000 faiths and produce an illiterate Christianity who cannot delve into the oral tradition that was handed down for the first 100 years after the death of the Chris
Just once, would one of you fakers provide a single piece of evidence that there is any truth to this fable???
Understanding the Holy Eucharist, the Mass, the Assumption, etc is too much for these folks AND is a risk to the livelihood and personal lifestyles.
Oh, we understand it perfectly...That's why we reject it...
He showed us how we can receive His flesh and blood through the institution of the Eucharist.
Jesus NEVER showed anyone any such thing...You guys are making this up to falsely justify you unbiblical practice...
The bread and wine become His body and blood through the power of the Holy Spirit. The bread does not turn it itself into the body and the wine does not turn itself into the blood. God does this through the Holy Spirit
Not a single piece of biblical evidence to back that up...NOTHING...Again, you guys made this up as well...But if you want to add to God's words to justify your religion, go for it...But don't expect anyone who reads scripture to buy into it...
I am very much after the things of the Spirit.
If you think you got this information from the Holy Spirit, you'd better test the spirits because this junk doesn't come from the Holy Spirit...
NEVER We’ve seen excuses, obfuscation, attempts to go down bunny trails into the weeds but never corrected.
You must realize that the Biblical definition of CHURCH is when 2 or more believers come together in HIS name to worship. That is what the Bible means by “church”.
All who do that are part of his CHURCH.
When you love someone, I mean really truly LOVE someone you want to know them as deeply and richly as possible. You want to know everything about them. Where they came from, who there parents are, do they have brothers and/or sisters. In short you want to know everything there is to know about them. Otherwise you will be like the wheat in Luke 8:6 Some seed fell on rocky ground, and when it grew, it withered for lack of moisture.
Some may see the irony in that statement...
The trick is to read the bible and then compare it to the commentaries by Agustine, Aquinas, the snippets from your church fathers where they agree with your religion etc.; those sources where you derive your intellect from...
Ignoring those theologians who disagree with the pro Catholic theologians relieves one from the burden of living up to the title of intellectual...
Philosophers are the main stay of Catholicism...People who study to gain and teach wisdom, reasoning, logic...Man's wisdom, reasoning and logic...These are the Catholic theologians...God tells us to lock them out of the mix since they are void spiritual knowledge, understanding, wisdom, reasoning and logic...
You get to know your wife by marrying your wife and then living with her...You're not going to learn much by listening to other people who claim to know something about her...
Same with Jesus...You hook up with Jesus, study his words and live your life with him...You'll get to know Jesus...
Verga's account of the incident does not match the facts in the case.
It appears that his recollection is not entirely accurate.
Besides, there is the RF guidelines that arguments are not to be taken from thread to thread.
Does the RM need to be notified?
I guess that really shows the Catholic view of the significant and importance of Scripture.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
verga, if you want to pursue those disagreements, do it on the original thread - don't bring them over to a new thread.
For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2:1-16
And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Found in Scripture.
The problem is, that as this source states (1987), "if the fine distinctions made by Catholic theologians "are usually not reflected in the practice of the faithful," idolatry would seem to be a distinct possibility in the lives of the faithful."
"By the sixteenth century, as evidenced by the spiritual struggles of the Reformers, the image of Mary had largely eclipsed the centrality of Jesus Christ in the life of believers." (Robert C. Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, revised and updated; NY: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987 pp.32,33),
While Rome supposes to keep people from worshiping created being by the use of fine distinctions, in the Bible anyone bowing down and mentally beseeching someone invisible in Heaven other than God would have a hard time saying he/she was only "venerating" them.
You not only have zero examples among the 100 prayers or so in Scripture of anyone except pagans praying to anyone else in Heaven but the Lord, whom the Spirit Himself cries to ("Abba, Father, ' Gal. 4:6, not "Mama, mama") or in instructions (not "our mother" who art in Heaven), nor due to any insufficiency in Christ, the only Heavenly intercessor actually taught in Scripture (versus elders and angels offering up memorials).
The fact that the Holy Spirit would only example and teach supplications to Heaven being made to the Lord, while the only ones praying to someone else were pagans, (Jer. 44), when this is such a basic practice, ought to be enough to dissuade God-fearing souls from engaging in this.
But the fact is that it is not based on Scripture, but impure tradition, which was infected with paganism.
The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm)
Keep in mind as well, that every time Paul exhorts his churches to "heed the Gospel", "keep the Gospel", "hold firm to the Gospel" --- and he says this some 6 dozen times--- he is telling them to hold firm to oral tradition. He is charging them to keep what he has handed on by preaching --- since every one of Paul's epistles was written before a single one of the four Gospels had been put into writing.
Indeed, and much of Scripture was first oral, but not all that was oral was the Word of God, and which Scripture completely is, thus it is the assured word of God. Rome essentially attempts to add to Scripture by channeling oral tradition into doctrine and making it equal with Scripture, and to make herself as the inspired writers in so doing, even though she does claim the same kind of inspiration. However, the Lord and His apostles established their truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in word and in power, and thus we no such novelties as PTDS . Approx. 100 prayers all directly to the Lord, and instructions to address Him is what we see.
Note also that the appeal to "hold fast the traditions" cannot be shown to refer to any secret teaching that was not subsequently written, which is the norm for anything called the "word of God/the Lord."
Jesus and Paul warn repeatedly against the "traditions of men," too. So the question arises: since there are evidently two kinds of tradition --- Apostolic tradition, which is authoritative, and "human tradition," which is not --- how does one distinguish one from the other?
Indeed, This was also a question before the church. So tell me how "the law of Moses, and prophets, and psalms," (Lk. 24:44) - which the Lord directed the Jews to - were established as Scripture.
The answer is of course the Church: the Church which Jesus said He would build on Kephas, the Church to which He said his disciples should go in order to settle disputes (Matthew 18:17).
As seen by the fact that the majority of our Scriptures were established as Scripture enough so that there was no dispute over the Lord's appeal to them by the time of Christ (and there is not evidence the 1cent. LXX had the apocrypha) without a sppsdly infallible church, then the idea that this is needed is not an "of course," but "off course."
In reality, both true men of God and true writings of God were established the same way as being so, that essentially being due to their enduring Divine qualities, including conformity with and complementarity to what was previously established), and supernatural attestation (by which means Moses, the first writer, was established).
The powers that be are to affirm both true men of God and true writings of God as being so, but whether they did or not did not necessarily change their status.
Thus, contrary to the Roman model, in which the stewards of revelation and inheritors of promises of Divine presence, and claimants to historical descent are the supreme and assuredly true inviolable authority, the church began in dissent from those who were. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Num. 23:19,23; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Mal. 3:6; Rm. 3:2; 9:4) .
Indeed, under the Roman model, how could anyone follow a man in the desert who ate insects and an Itinerant Preacher when those who sat in the seat of Moses rejected Him? Thus the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders asked Him him, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?
The Lord's response to force them to state whether the baptism of John was valid, but who had no more authority from them than the Lord. Thus they were silenced.
Thus while the magisterium is a valid office, with conditional obedience enjoined, (Mt. 23:2; Acts 4:19; 5:29) and ordination an valid ordinance, those in power are never assuredly infallible, nor is this necessary for writings to be established Scripture (and thus a canon) and truth to be preserved. But the Lord often raised up men from without the magisterium to preserve faith and expand His kingdom.By so doing the church began and has been preserved.
This is no "invisible" Church: it's a Church you can go to, a Church you must listen to, when there is a disagreement with a brother.
Indeed it is visible, yet the only true church is the body of Christ as it alone consists of true believers, and Rome herself admits the visible body is divided, with more contrasts seen in Rome than churches i would recommend.
It's built on the Apostles: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2:20) these being men who established their claims upon Scriptural substantiation in text and in power. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39, 14:11; Acts 17:2,11; Rm. 15:19; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12)
In contrast, while Rome will quote texts to support herself, in reality the veracity of her doctrines is not based on Scriptural substantiation (only that they do not contradict Scripture, yet which is according to Rome alone as being correct), otherwise she would be like evangelicals, but in reality the veracity of her doctrines rests upon the premise of her perpetual assured veracity. Which is why RCs engage so much in arguments by sheer assertions.
St. Paul warns against false teachers not deputed by the Twelve, or by himself.
Which Rome is manifestly not, as it witnesses it is not as they, and as the the validity of a teacher was not assured by formal historical descent, any more than it was for the Jews, as God is able to raise up from stones children unto Abraham, (Mt. 3:9) and raise up stones to build His church who effectually confess with Peter that Jesus is the Divine Son of God.
Those churches which are most apostolic are those which establishes truth claims upon such Scriptural substantiation, preaching the gospel which effects manifest regeneration, evidencing that it is the church of the living, not institutionalized God seen in most of Catholicism and much of Protestantism.
The minimalist view of these things, taken by the ecclesial communities and movements which arose a millennium or more after Apostolic times, establishes a chasm which is very hard to cross.
It is Rome that minimizes - that of Scripture versus it being the supreme standard for obedience and truth claims which is it abundantly evidenced to be. And while we can enjoy an essential fellowship of the Spirit that transcends divisions, the chasm that Rome's gospel - which teaches one is justified by their interior holiness thru (usually) infant sprinkling in recognition of proxy faith, and then made good enough enter Heaven thru purgatory, and which fosters confidence in the power of Rome - creates is the one which is very hard for them to cross, btwn the dead to the living. Been there .
Let me also say though that you are the most courteous and civil RC poster i have engaged with here, and my reproof of Rome as an institution does not mean i do not respect you as a person.
Busy night, eh?
They sure do get angry when scripture is posted which shows the RCC to be full of errors don’t they? The vitriol from them will only intensify as time gets closer to the end.
LOL
It does come to “it’s all Christ” doesn’t it.
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