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To: donmeaker
So who is the hater?

You, apparently . . . in a long line of Catholic haters in the sad, centuries-old history of anti-Catholicism. Elizabeth, who had her wits about her, burned as many Catholics at the stake as did a rather deranged Mary burn Protestants. And in the era you are discussing, heresy (Wycliff preached some 50 or 60 of them) was never treated as a laughing matter, and it was often secular authorities who did the persecuting. Wycliff's bones? Yes, exhumed by Martin V, but many years after the order was given by the Council of Constance (long after his death) in a time of religious warfare and to fulfill orders of a council following a period of papal schism and conciliar government. Yes, yes, all very savage, but perhaps we should discuss other enlightened acts of the time, such as the murder of Thomas More or the drawing and quartering of the Carthusian monks, the most devout men in England, as a prelude for the slaughters of thousands of good churchmen (who had the best interest of the peasantry at heart) which soon followed.

276 posted on 10/15/2013 8:43:11 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: MrChips

But I have also not dug up and scattered bones.

That you charge me with hater, shows you seem obsessed with such. You pin the term ‘hater’ on yourself with every post.


277 posted on 10/15/2013 9:41:20 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: MrChips

“Wycliffe became deeply disillusioned both with Scholastic theology of his day and also with the state of the church, at least as represented by the clergy. In the final phase of his life in the years before his death in 1384 he increasingly argued for Scriptures as the authoritative centre of Christianity, that the claims of the papacy were unhistorical, that monasticism was irredeemably corrupt, and that the moral unworthiness of priests invalidated their office and sacraments.”

The first to oppose his theses were monks of those orders that held possessions, to whom his theories were dangerous.

Wycliffe was summoned before William Courtenay, Bishop of London, on 19 February 1377.... The exact charges are not known, as the matter did not get as far as a definite examination.... four begging friars were his advocates.

Most of the English clergy were irritated by this encounter, and attacks upon Wycliffe began, finding their response in the second and third books of his work dealing with civil government. These books carry a sharp polemic, hardly surprising when it is recalled that his opponents charged Wycliffe with blasphemy and scandal, pride and heresy. He appeared to have openly advised the secularization of English church property, and the dominant parties shared his conviction that the monks could better be controlled if they were relieved from the care of secular affairs.

The reformatory activities of Wycliffe effectively began here: all the great works, especially his Summa theologiae, are closely connected with the condemnation of his 18 theses, while the entire literary energies of his later years rest upon this foundation. The next aim of his opponents – to make him out a revolutionary in politics – failed.

Wycliffe tried to gain public favour by laying his theses before Parliament, and then made them public in a tract, accompanied by explanations, limitations, and interpretations. After the session of Parliament was over he was called upon to answer, and in March, 1378, he appeared at the episcopal palace at Lambeth to defend himself. The preliminaries were not yet finished when a noisy mob gathered with the purpose of saving him; the king’s mother, Joan of Kent, also took up his cause. The bishops, who were divided, satisfied themselves with forbidding him to speak further on the controversy. At Oxford the vice-chancellor, following papal directions, confined Wycliffe for some time in Black Hall, from which Wycliffe was released on threats from his friends; the vice-chancellor was himself confined in the same place because of his treatment of Wycliffe.

The sharper the strife became, the more Wycliffe had recourse to his translation of Scripture as the basis of all Christian doctrinal opinion, and expressly tried to prove this to be the only norm for Christian faith. To refute his opponents, he wrote the book in which he endeavored to show that Holy Scripture contains all truth and, being from God, is the only authority. He referred to the conditions under which the condemnation of his 18 theses was brought about; and the same may be said of his books dealing with the Church, the office of king, and the power of the pope – all completed within the space of two years (1378–79). To Wycliffe, the Church is the totality of those who are predestined to blessedness. Its head is Christ. No pope may say that he is the head, for he cannot say that he is elect or even a member of the Church.

Extract from wikipedia. I tried to get some of that from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, but they were not very clear as to what Wycliffe’s theses were.


281 posted on 10/16/2013 9:18:52 AM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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