Are We Really Catholic Bashing?

reachingcatholics.org ^ | Unknown | Mike Gendron

[jodyel]

Are We Really Catholic Bashing? Mike Gendron

Throughout the last 13 years we have made the Roman Catholic Church our primary mission field. It has been our heart’s desire to see Roman Catholics embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as their all-sufficient Savior and enjoy the salvation He sovereignly secured for all who trust Him alone. Needless to say, we have received thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls from disgruntled, irate, annoyed, threatening or confused Catholics who tell us we are Catholic bashers and do not know anything about their religion. Some are zealous for God, but without biblical knowledge. Others have an unbending loyalty to the Pope and his teachings. We recently received a letter which covers many issues that are usually brought forth when Catholics are confronted with the biblical Gospel. Following is the letter and my response.

Dear Mr. Gendron,

I hope you can open your heart enough to truly hear what I’m about to tell you. First, you were not a "hard-core" Catholic. You are like a lot of people who were raised Catholic, who really did not know or understand their faith. I was like you at one time. I was raised Catholic, but did not practice my faith for years. But thanks to the grace of God, the Holy Spirit, and my devout wife, I rediscovered my Catholic faith as an adult. I love my faith and its glorious tradition handed down from Peter and Paul and the Apostles.

Regarding your belief in the Bible alone, who do you believe compiled the Bible? Before the Protestant Reformation, Catholics wrote the only Bibles in existence. The King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs. You see, Catholicism was the only game in town for over a thousand years until the Eastern Orthodox Church split with Rome and the Protestant Reformation further splintered Christians. The doctrines of Catholic faith have not significantly changed in 2000 years! Yet Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:2 those who "hold fast to traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter". In 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Paul says "Shun any brother who conducts himself not according to tradition they received from us." The Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture.

Does being born-again mean that it is open season on Catholics? Is Catholic bashing a requirement for being born-again? Why the constant attacks on Catholicism, an attack on those who receive Christ in the Eucharist on a weekly, or in my case, a daily basis? Do you really believe that if you’re Catholic you’re going to hell? When it was written that early Christians needed to be "born-again", the target audience was those who were not already baptized. Taken in that context, the need to be born-again does not apply to Catholics since Catholics have already been baptized, and are thus reborn.

Sincerely,

A Devout Catholic

Dear Devout Catholic,

I would like to address each one of your points. First, the Catholic Church was not even around to compile the Hebrews Scriptures. The Old Testament was closed 400 years before Christ’s life, death and resurrection. Furthermore, it was the apostles and the eyewitnesses to the events of Christ’s first coming who wrote the New Testament, not Catholics. The Roman Catholic Church did not exist in the first century. It can not be the one true church founded by Christ because it does not profess the faith of the apostles. Its teachings and traditions prove, beyond a doubt, that it has departed from the apostolic faith.

Jude warned the early church to contend for the faith against apostates. In verse 4 of his epistle, he wrote, "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord." Jude identifies the apostates by certain characteristics that resemble the Roman Catholic Church. Catholics deny Jesus as the only sovereign and Lord by supplanting His authority with an authority of their own. They have turned the grace of God into a commodity that can be bought, bartered or merited through indulgences and sacraments. They have perverted the Gospel of grace into a gospel of faith plus works. They have denied the supremacy and sovereignty of Christ and given His divine attributes and titles to Mary and the Pope. They have denied the sufficiency of the word and work of Christ. These are just some of the characteristics that would convict the Catholic Church of being apostate not apostolic.

The Roman Catholic Church declares itself to be the church that Jesus started 2000 years ago. It further pronounces that the church never changes its dogmatic teachings. With this in mind we, once again, can examine the teachings of the Catholic Church today and prove they do not resemble the first century church. Nowhere in the New Testament do we see:

• Priests offering sacrifices for sins • Indulgences remitting punishment for sins • Prayers for souls in purgatory • Church leaders forbidden to marry • Infallible men • Salvation dispensed through sacraments • Rosaries, scapulars, holy water, crucifixes & statues

You said "the King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs." You are incorrect. The King James Bible was translated from the original languages of Scripture (Hebrew and Greek) while the first Roman Catholic Bible, known as the Douay-Rheims Bible was translated from Latin in the 16th century. Needless to say, a translation from the original languages would be much more accurate than a translation from a translation. Furthermore, it is not the King James Bible that departed from the original canon but the Roman Catholic Bible. In 1546 the Council of Trent added the Apocryphal books to the canon in an attempt to justify the doctrine of Purgatory. Jerome rejected them when he was translating the Bible into Latin in 450 because they were never part of the Hebrew canon. The texts include Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit, Sirach, Baruch, Maccabees I & II, Esdras I & II, additions to the Book of Esther, the Book of Daniel, and the Prayer of Manasseh.

Have you considered the references to tradition in the New Testament appear mostly as warnings against using them to nullify the word of God or to hold people captive (Mark 7:7-13; Col. 2:8-9). Only three times is tradition used in a positive sense. The few references you cited are exhortation for Christians to follow apostolic traditions. Please note the tense. Each reference is given in the past tense, i.e. the tradition which you were taught, (2 Thes. 2:15); which you have heard (2 Tim. 2:2); and, as I [Paul] delivered them to you (1 Cor. 11:2) Man’s tradition, which crept into the church after the apostles, is what we are to earnestly contend against (Jude 3). Followers of Jesus Christ are exhorted to earnestly contend for the faith which was delivered to the saints at the time the last apostle went to glory. "The faith" is made up of the Word of God and the traditions which "were taught" by the apostles. We must contend against other traditions because religious leaders and institutions can become corrupt (Mat. 23). The only assurance to genuine faith is from the objective, infallible Word of God (John 17:17).

You noted that the Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture. Do you know why John included what he did in his Gospel? He tells us. "These [things] have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31). Have you believed what John wrote? Unfortunately many Roman Catholics would have been indoctrinated to trust their clergy rather than what is written in the divinely inspired Scriptures. Consider what John has written about the Lord Jesus Christ:

• He saves sinners from condemnation (John 3:18, 5:24). • He came to give life to those who are spiritually dead in sin (John 14:6). • He showed the world the only way to the Father because sinners are lost (John 14:6). • He is the personification of truth. To avoid deception we must trust Him (John 14:6). • He testifies to the truth. Those who seek the truth listen to Him (John 18:37).

John also answers your questions on being born-again. He wrote: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13). Please note that those who are born-again "believe in His name." Is it possible for a 7-day old infant to believe or have faith in anything? Please also note that those who are born-again are born of God not of any human initiative. You can not be born-again because you were born into a Christian family, or because of self-will or because of your parents’ decision to baptize you. It is God who calls and draws those He has chosen (Eph. 1:4; John 6:44; Rom. 8:30). The Bible teaches that anyone (Catholic or non-Catholic) who has not been born-again will not enter the kingdom of God, but instead suffer everlasting torment in the eternal lake of fire.

I do not know why Catholics so often refer to us as Catholic bashers. If we really wanted to bash Catholics we would ignore them and let them march proudly towards an eternity without Christ. It is our love for Catholics and for our Lord that motivates us to be faithful to the great commission. It is our compassion for Catholics that persuades us to proclaim that Jesus Christ is sufficient to save sinners completely and forever, a doctrine that most Catholics deny. And finally it is our desire to exalt our Lord by exposing any teaching or tradition that robs Him of the glory, honor and praise that He alone deserves. It is my prayer that you will come to Jesus with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but your sins to the cross! Only then will you know the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.

In God’s Grace, Mike Gendron

[jodyel]

Thank you, Gamecock.

[jodyel]

If I thought arguing in the flesh would help, I would respond. But as we have all seen, it does not. And so that is why I wish to wait on those the Spirit draws. This is a spiritual battle and is not fought against flesh and blood and will not be won in the flesh.

Thanks, mlizzy.

[mlizzy]

As for your quote from Matthew (which didn't bother to say what chapter it would be found), what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Did you pause to think that I simply forgot the chapter, rather than me not "bothering" to say where it was found, and I thought it was a good verse (maybe it's not to you; if so, I apologize), as you stated that Catholics feel they are the only ones to be saved. The verse states clearly that anything is possible with God [regarding saving].

Purgatory makes great sense. No one enters heaven without getting rid of their filth. Do you think it just "magically" happens that after your heart stops beating, Christ's grace changes you somehow? Why would one not have to go over all the slights, sins, and sorrows they caused to others while here on earth? Very few escape purgatory is my belief. And one could never be prayed out of hell. Do you think Catholics believe that?

That's the beauty of purgatory (Jesus gives you the opportunity to improve), however, some "levels" of purgatory are just like hell, except you're looking up to the glorious future of heaven, and not down into hellfire. (As I was a great sinner as a lukewarm Lutheran, purgatory appealed to me; just one of the reasons that I became strongly interested in converting.)

Several saints have had visions of heaven, hell, and purgatory. To leave them out of the mix, is to shortchange oneself spiritually I believe. They are Christ's front line; they have fought for Him like True soldiers, and many have died martyrs for that very reason.

St. John Vianney - "We must say many prayers for the souls of the faithful departed, for one must be so pure to enter heaven."

[WVKayaker]

Purgatory makes great sense. No one enters heaven without getting rid of their filth. Do you think it just "magically" happens that after your heart stops beating, Christ's grace changes you somehow?

hahahahahaaaa... More doctrines of devils!

I know it's difficult to understand, if you think God will give you a second chance. But, He gives you only one. You can try to be good, but fail every time. It is impossible to please God. All you can do is depend on Him, since it is faith in Him that saves, not anything we do or is there anybody that can pray us into His saving grace....

You should spend more time with ALL Scripture, and not just the ones that Rome tells you is good for their purposes. Paul is clear about the subject.

Romans 7: ...14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! ...

Romans 8: 8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. ...

[mlizzy]

If I thought arguing in the flesh would help, I would respond. But as we have all seen, it does not. And so that is why I wish to wait on those the Spirit draws. This is a spiritual battle and is not fought against flesh and blood and will not be won in the flesh.

I don't think "arguing" back and forth is good either jodyel, but I do believe everyone should defend their beliefs to the best of their ability [when questioned about them]; otherwise why even have them? But bottom line, I will respect your decision, and will always pray for you too, and I hope you're doing well. God be with you... ♥

[mlizzy]

It is impossible to please God.

So gloomy... I wouldn't even want to wake up in the morning if I thought that was true.

[jodyel]

By all means, my friend, defend away. Do as you are directed.

As for me, I will wait upon the Spirit of the Lord.

I am very well, thanks, and you?

God bless,
jodyel

[mlizzy]

I am very well, thanks, and you?

Fine my FRiend, thank you! The weather is superb in the Chicago area today, so much can be accomplished in the great outdoors. Replanting the seeds our border collie plowed through yesterday, painting a dresser I found for free, walking the dogs so they are less prone to misbehave, etc. etc..... and so on.. :)

[jodyel]

Very much envy you your lovely weather there. I am in Texas and sweating like a pig!

Enjoy the day!

[CynicalBear]

I didn’t think you would understand that post. The arrogance of Catholics is astounding. They take credit for what God did. Judas was also used of God as was Harrod. Benny Hinn started out as a very good teacher on scripture. Now look at him. The RCC corrupted not only scripture but the entire concept of service to God.

[WVKayaker]

"It is impossible to please God." -wvk

So gloomy... I wouldn't even want to wake up in the morning if I thought that was true. -liz

There's nothing gloomy about my life. I look forward to waking up because I know what God has promised me.

You see, that is where Satan has been most successful. The Catholic Church teaches that if you do this or do that, if you say this or say that, if you light a candle, that will help you become a better person. However, a proper study of ALL the Scriptures will just confirm what I have told you. I've already posted that portions from Paul's letter to Rome which speak directly to what I said. Paul admits that he cannot do the things that he wants to do (live a sinless life), and he still does those things which he does not want to do (we are all sinners). But thanks to God, our sins are purged through faith.

Scripture informs us that we are no longer bound to the law! The law is still there to reveal sin, but Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover us, through faith a(Not by works of righteousness, lest any man should boast). It can also read any woman.

There is no halfway house called Purgatory. That is a Catholic tradition that came rather late into the picture. Study your own organization's history a little bit and you will find the much of what they claim cannot be located within Scripture. They will teach you that their tradition is just as relevant as God's word. But, again study your organization's traditions, and there are so many that have just popped up out of the blue along the way.

I'll continue to pray for blind eyes to be opened by God's Holy Spirit. It's so easy to listen to traditions and pray to dead people in the hope that it will bring an advantage in your life, and in your personal journey through this world. But, contrary to the dogmas and traditions of the Roman Catholic organization, Mary is dead, all of your saints are dead, and those that trust in the organizational structure are place that above God's word may be lost. Only God knows our hearts.

I believe there is one church. The head of the church is Jesus Christ. The meeting place is in our hearts. The requirement for membership is quite simple. “You must be born again”! If one is born again, they are a new creation through Christ. They have been adopted into God's family has joint heirs with Christ. Everything that I'm telling you has been posted repeatedly on this thread and others, backed up by Scripture without interpretation. Is the work of the Holy Spirit of no avail? Is Christ's death to be measured by our assumed Holiness? The answer is clear.

I won't bother replying to your continual postings of Catholic doctrine, except with Scriptures. God's word will stand. The Roman Catholic Church will not pay the price with God.

Peters dead. Jesus is the rock!

I will finish by reposting the section from Romans 8...

RomansThe 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

[boatbums]

Personally, I find your commentary condescending to Catholics. And sometimes I wonder if you have a life [outside of Free Republic] that is filled with the beauty and love of the Christianity you keep espousing.

For those who choose to participate in these Open Religion Forum threads, it's a good idea to leave behind ones "personal" feelings. It is not really your concern what my life is "outside of Free Republic" and it should be obvious that no one could speak of the beauty and love of genuine Christianity unless they DID experience it. There is plenty of Catholic condescension here if you are interested in objectively seeing it, so, please, don't worry about my spiritual health. Tend to your own.

[boatbums]

[BlueDragon]

No worries. I think I recognize the type. Only 'aacks' at (cough, cough) Harold Camping followers.

We're probably safe around here?

[boatbums]

We hear some version of that on these pages EVERY STINKING DAY, but some here have the temerity to say "we never pick on you guys" sob-sob, sniff, sniffle...

We don't even need the "boys" to back up the truth that they are crocodile/alligator tears. ;o)

[Iscool]

Purgatory makes great sense. No one enters heaven without getting rid of their filth.

Purgatory can not clean your filth...Nothing can clean your filth...That's why Jesus died...

He took ALL of our filth and put it on himself, deemed us to be righteous...Not later but right now...The millisecond we trust him to be our Savior...

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Iscool]

I am in Texas and sweating like a pig!

Pigs don't sweat...

[jodyel]

They do in Texas....everything sweats here. lol

[mlizzy]

...and it should be obvious that no one could speak of the beauty and love of genuine Christianity unless they DID experience it...

I guess it's not obvious to me. I always feel like I'm being reprimanded when I read your posts, as you whip with His Words. Maybe you don't realize this, and maybe I'm the only one who feels this way.

I can almost see Jesus with pen and paper in hand, though, saying to all of us who debate [too much] online, "Yes, I've read your FReeper posts. Did you really feel it was necessary to bicker so much over "Me"? Building a garden and planting weeds would have helped your cause more."

[mlizzy]

I won't bother replying to your continual postings of Catholic doctrine, except with Scriptures.

You didn't like/understand my last Bible verse that I posted... so I'm giving up on that. As far as reading the Bible more (which you mentioned earlier), depending on your age, it's possible I've read even more than you have, as I have followed along [in the missal] when the priest reads the readings at daily Mass (for the last almost thirty years). And sometimes my husband and I would discuss the readings on the way home from Mass too (we used to walk, for years). A beautiful perfect! way to start each day. In regard to purgatory/St. Paul, Jimmy Akin is a smart guy and provides a good read: How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants.

And before you go, do "other" Born-Again Christians also feel that "It is impossible to please God"? It would explain their [sometimes] gnarly attitudes if so. I've never heard of anything so bleak..