Posted on 09/21/2013 3:07:58 PM PDT by NYer
A long time ago?
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. (Matt. 1:18-19)
The one year engagement/betrothal period was for the protection of BOTH parties. It showed the wife if the husband was able to provide and honest and, for the husband, if the wife was pregnant by some other man.
Do Catholics just swallow whatever their currently popular "apologists" spout or do most think it through first?
Where is your evidence Mary ever made such a vow?
Castrati opera singers like Farinelli at the time of Handel in the 1700’s, were not permitted to marry because they could not fully consummate the marriage - although apparently they could achieve some type of erection but not dispense seminal fluid and engender children. Which was why Signor Farinelli lived in a romantic relationship with a woman and used his brother to get her with child. He raised the boy as his nephew and left him his fortune. Watch the movie, made circa 1994. This was also why the eunuchs in the Middle East harems were completely castrated, penis was removed, to prevent any insertion.
Okay, since the whole thing is a fairy tale, feel free to make up your own beginning and end.
Circumstantial.
The most opportune occasion for such a vow was her presentation in the Temple. The Protoevangelium of James (7-8), and the writing entitled “De nativit. Mariae” (7-8), state that Joachim and Anna, faithful to a vow they had made, presented the child Mary in the Temple when she was three years old; that the child herself mounted the Temple steps, and that she made her vow of virginity on this occasion.
The Gospel of James, also known as the Infancy Gospel of James or the Protoevangelium of James, is an apocryphal Gospel probably written about AD 145, which expands backward in time the infancy stories contained the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, and presents a narrative concerning the birth and upbringing of Mary herself. It is the oldest source to assert the virginity of Mary not only prior to but during (and after) the birth of Jesus. The ancient manuscripts that preserve the book have different titles, including “The Birth of Mary”, “The Story of the Birth of Saint Mary, Mother of God,” and “The Birth of Mary; The Revelation of James.”
The Gospel of James is one of several surviving Infancy Gospels that give an idea of the miracle literature that was created to satisfy the hunger of early Christians for more detail about the early life of their Saviour. In Greek such an infancy gospel was termed a protevangelion, a “pre-Gospel” narrating events of Jesus’ life before those recorded in the four canonical gospels. Such a work was intended to be “apologetic, doctrinal, or simply to satisfy one’s curiosity”.
Other infancy gospels in this tradition include The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew (based on the Protoevangelium of James and on the Infancy Gospel of Thomas), and the so-called Arabic Infancy Gospel; all of which were regarded by the Church as apocryphal.
Different faith traditions can believe what they want to believe but the bottom line is we should respect the Holy Family and not cause pain to other believers who can’t or won’t accept the traditional teachings. I don’t think the two sides will ever come together over this.
A vow of celibacy by a three year old girl?
Color me skeptical.
Your real problem is that Jewish culture and Law did not glorify celibacy in the way later Christian and Catholic culture did. It promoted marriage, childbirth and family. Virginity, particularly perpetual virginity, was not viewed as a good thing.
Well, Jesus (Mat 19:12) and St. Paul valued it (1 Cor. 7:1-7).
Regardless, there were the Essenes.
David was
If this logic is correct, then Mary and Joseph's marriage was never ratified (e.g. confirmed, consented). That would mean Joseph never confirmed or consented to the marriage.
Is this the path Catholics would like to take?
None of this matters. the Bible says nothing about Mary’s perpetual virginity ... period. People have invented things that don’t exist in the Bible for unknown reasons.
It is a lot more complicated than that. If not celibacy, chastity was an extremely complicated thing in Judaism, more so than in Christianity.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4263-chastity
Check out Mt 12:49, Mk 6:3, Luke 8:19, Jn 7:3,4,5,10, referring to Jesus’ brothers ( adelphos- male sibling in the greek text, not adelphotes - a brotherly relation as in brotherhood).
Also, James, the Lord’s brother (adelphos) in Mt 13:55. Mk 6:3, Lk 24:10, Gal 1:19, Judas in Jude 1, James some more in Acts 1:13, 12:17, 21:18, Gal 2:9, and, James (the entire epistle of).
I have no doubt that these bothers had the same father as each other, and the same Mother, the Mother of Jesus.
One would have to construct an awful lot of sematic exceptions in order to purpose that these “brothers of the Lord” were really just members of the “brotherhood of Jesus....
The only reason to declare Mary a lifelong celibate woman is to worship her. Not to simply state what the language means in plain “greek”.
Seek it out, study of your own accord, test all things, ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit (if you are born again, otherwise your just stuck with your own intellect).
Best;
And here I thought you were coming down on me, GreyFriar.
If I remember correctly once the contract was established they were considered the same as married, and she would have gone to live with her in laws to be. She would have been about 12 or 13 at the time, depends on when she started her menses Because that is the time frame they married them off to much older men, Joesph would have been in his 30’s at least.
Could not tell you, I’m AG, and believe in the virgin birth, knowing Joseph was much older than Mary as he was already a master carpenter. Probably about 30 to her 12-13. And the angel who told him not to be afraid to take her to wife also told him to refrain from touching her until after Jesus’s birth. Scripture prophecy had to be fulfilled of virgin birth.
January 15, 1
I guess you were not invited. No one mentioned the baby. Mary’s younger sister took care of her for the afternoon.
The reception was at the Moses lounge, you know..the place owned by Joe’s uncle Enoch. He has “friends.”
The best gift of the day was a beach set for the baby. Like he needs a bathing suit.
Lots of wine and fish for dinner. It just didn’t stop. Who knew Mary’s parents would spring for the open bar.
A phrase which irks me is the Mother of God thing. Mary wasn’t the mother of God the Father, but God the Son. She was impregnated by God the Holy Spirit. For her to be the mother of God,she would have to have given birth to the trinity. God has always existed, and through Jesus - all things were created - including Mary. Just where was Mary when Jesus was creating heaven and earth?
Catholics need to study the Word for themselves and think these things through - Mary was blessed to have been chosen as the vessel to bring the Savior into the world as a man. However, no where in the Scriptures are we ever told to treat her above Jesus - or to pray to her as a mediator. \
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