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When Were Joseph and Mary Married?
Catholic Answers ^ | September 20, 2013 | Tim Staples

Posted on 09/21/2013 3:07:58 PM PDT by NYer

When the Archangel Gabriel visited Mary and declared unto her that she was called to be the Mother of God, as we see recorded in Luke 1, her response would become the cause of the spilling of a whole lot of ink over the centuries: “How shall this happen, since I know not man?” (v. 34, Douay Rheims, Confraternity Edition).

For Catholics this is an indication of Mary’s vow of perpetual virginity. It’s really quite simple. If Mary and Joseph were just an ordinary couple embarking on a normal married life together, there would be no reason to ask the question. Mary would have known very well how it could be that the angel was saying she would have a baby. As St. Augustine said it:

Had she intended to know man, she would not have been amazed. Her amazement is a sign of the vow (Sermon 225, 2).

But Protestants do not see it as quite so simple. Reformed Apologist James White gives us an example of the most common objection to our “Catholic” view of this text:

Nothing about a vow is mentioned in Scripture. Mary’s response to the angel was based upon the fact that it was obvious that the angel was speaking about an immediate conception, and since Mary was at that time only engaged to Joseph, but not married, at that time she could not possibly conceive in a natural manner, since she did not “know a man” (Mary—Another Redeemer? p. 31.).

Among the errors in just these two sentences (I counted four), there are two that stand out for our purpose here.

Error #1: Mr. White claims Mary was engaged to St. Joseph.

There was no such thing as engagement (as it is understood in modern Western culture) in ancient Israel. The text says Mary was “betrothed” or “espoused” (Gr.—emnesteumene), not engaged. Betrothal, in ancient Israel, would be akin to the ratification of a marriage (when a couple exchanges vows in the presence of an official witness of the Church) in Catholic theology. That ratified marriage is then consummated—in the normal course—on the couple’s wedding night. So when Luke 1:27 says Mary was betrothed, it means they were already married at the time of the annunciation. If this were an ordinary marriage, St. Joseph would then have had a husband’s right to the marriage bed—the consummation.

This simple truth proves devastating to Mr. White’s (and the Protestant's) argument. If Joseph and Mary were married—and they were—and they were planning the normal course, Mary would have known full and well how she could and would have a baby. As St. Augustine said, the question reveals the fact that this was not just your average, ordinary marriage. They were not planning to consummate their union.

Betrothed = Married?

For those who are not convinced “betrothed” equals “married” for Mary and Joseph; fortunately, the Bible makes this quite clear. If we move forward in time from the “annunciation” of Luke 1 to Matthew 1 and St. Joseph’s discovery of Mary’s pregnancy, we find Matthew 1:18 clearly stating Mary and Joseph were still “betrothed.” Yet, when Joseph found out Mary was “with child,” he determined he would “send her away privately” (vs. 19). The Greek verb translated in the RSVCE to send away is apolusai, which means divorce. Why would Joseph have to divorce Mary if they were only engaged?

Further, the angel then tells Joseph:

Do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit . . . When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife (vss. 20-24).

Notice, Joseph took Mary “his wife,” indicating both St. Matthew and an archangel considered this couple married even though they were said to be “betrothed.” “Betrothed” is obviously much more than “engaged.”

Moreover, months later we find Joseph and Mary travelling together to Bethlehem to be enrolled as a family according to the decree of Caesar Augustus, just before Jesus would be born. They were obviously married; yet, even then, they were still said to be “betrothed” (see Luke 2:5).

So let's recap what have we have uncovered. First, Joseph had already taken his espoused “wife” into his home and was caring for her. Second, Scripture reveals him to be her legal husband and to have travelled with Mary to be enrolled with her as a lawfully wedded couple and family. Third, she was called St. Joseph’s “wife” by the angel of the Lord… and yet, they were still referred to as betrothed.

Referring to Mary and Joseph as “engaged” in the face of all of this evidence would be like calling a modern couple at their wedding reception “engaged” because they have yet to consummate their marriage.

Once the fact that Mary and Joseph were already married at the time of the annunciation is understood, Mary’s “How shall this happen…” comes more into focus. Think about it: If you were a woman who had just been married (your marriage was “ratified,” but not consummated) and someone at your reception said—or “prophesied”—that you were going to have a baby—that would not really be all that much of a surprise. That is the normal course of events. You marry, consummate the union, and babies come along. You certainly would not ask the question, “Gee, how is this going to happen?” It is in this context of Mary having been betrothed, then, that her question does not make sense… unless, of course, you understand she had a vow of virginity. Then, it makes perfect sense.

Error #2: Mr. White claimed, “…it was obvious that the angel was speaking about an immediate conception.” And, closely related to this, Mr. White then claimed Mary asked the question, "How shall this happen...?" because she knew "at that time she could not conceive in a natural manner?"

Really? It was obvious?

There is not a single word in this text or anywhere else in Scripture that indicates Mary knew her conception was going to be immediate and via supernatural means. That’s why she asked the question, "How shall this happen...?" It appears she did not know the answer. How could she? Why would it ever enter into her mind? There would be no way apart from a revelation from God that she could have known. And most importantly, according to the text, the angel did not reveal the fact that Mary would conceive immediately and supernaturally until after Mary asked the question.

But let's suppose Mary was "engaged" as Mr. White claims. There would be even less reason to believe the conception would be immediate and somehow supernatural then there would be if Mary had a vow of virginity (though there’s really no reason to think this in either scenario). An "engaged" woman would have naturally assumed that when she and St. Joseph would later consummate their marriage, they could expect a very special surprise from God. They were going to conceive the Messiah. There would be no reason to think anything else. And there would be no reason to ask the question.

One final thought: When Mary asked the question, "How shall this happen, since I do not know man," the verb to be (Gr.-estai) is in the future tense. There is nothing here that would indicate she was thinking of the immediate. The future tense here most likely refers to… the future. The question was not how she could conceive immediately. The question was how she could conceive ever. The angel answered that question for her.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: sectarianturmoil
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To: boatbums
Really doesn't matter how ...

Sure it does ... or rather, "how NOT." A silly premise makes the rest of the question pointless.

121 posted on 09/23/2013 2:30:49 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Tax-chick
Sure it does ... or rather, "how NOT." A silly premise makes the rest of the question pointless.

Naw...There is scripture that overwhelmingly shows Jesus had brothers and sisters...There is no scripture even hinting that Mary never had more children...

What is pointless is go on to any further estimation when scripture paints such a clear picture...

122 posted on 09/23/2013 4:52:40 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: boatbums

“A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.”. (Mark 6:3,4)


All of the above true whether they were the children of Mary or not, now to settle it once and for all i wish some one would find a scripture that lists Marys children.

But this is the evils of religion,the Church starts a man made doctrine, such as so many hail Marys, so many our fathers, collecting tithes for a Government that no longer exists, trying to Change the 7th day Sabbath to a 1st day Sabbath.

And here we are trying to teach each each other on matters that don,t amount to a hill of beans.


123 posted on 09/23/2013 5:08:54 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Tax-chick
Sure it does ... or rather, "how NOT." A silly premise makes the rest of the question pointless.

I think it is curious that the actual question is being avoided here. It is far from a "silly premise" since the question of Mary having other children after Jesus is NOT settled - even to this day. It isn't a black or white conclusion and, instead, has many Biblical evidences for the affirmative. Those who refuse to consider the possibility do so because it WILL affect their ultimate view of the mother of Jesus. That was the point of my hypothetical. You have answered it whether you know it or not. Thank you.

124 posted on 09/23/2013 4:58:14 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Perhaps I was unclear. The “silly premise” to which I referred is the contention that it could be “shown” - that is, proved by scientific experiment or incontestible historical data - whether Mary gave birth to children other than Jesus.

I’m sure you realize that the references to Jesus’s “brothers and sisters” in the Gospel do not name the parents of those people, and so the only obvious historical source provides no information on the question.


125 posted on 09/24/2013 2:56:27 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Tax-chick
Perhaps I was unclear. The “silly premise” to which I referred is the contention that it could be “shown” - that is, proved by scientific experiment or incontestible historical data - whether Mary gave birth to children other than Jesus. I’m sure you realize that the references to Jesus’s “brothers and sisters” in the Gospel do not name the parents of those people, and so the only obvious historical source provides no information on the question.

Yet, we do NOT have "uncontested" historical data on that subject, do we? The references we have in Scripture indirectly name the parents of the brothers and sisters of Jesus as Joseph, the carpenter, and Mary, the mother of Jesus. Used in the manner that they were implies that these were Jesus' familial siblings and not cousins or just kinfolk, as some want to insist it does.

I have asked several times now to just assume that it could be proved incontrovertibly that Mary was not a "perpetual virgin" and to explain if and how this knowledge would or should affect the views of her. Are you unable or unwilling to address this question? It was asked seriously and not as any kind of "gotcha". It boils down to whether the honor and respect that Mary is given within Christianity is based on truth or wishful thinking. My respect for her is not at all diminished by her having a normal marriage that produced other children. If it does with others, then they should just admit it and not hem and haw around the question.

126 posted on 09/24/2013 1:47:50 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
The references we have in Scripture indirectly name

Another way to say "indirectly name" is "do not name." Scripture (2 Kings) names David as the father of Hezekiah, directly, and yet, David was not Hezekiah's immediate male progenitor at all, but an ancestor many generations preceding.

This is to say, we're back to really not having the information, if we read Scripture.

127 posted on 09/24/2013 1:51:14 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: boatbums

I never should have taken that logic class: it made me impossible.

Nonetheless, having a lot of Charlie Brown in me, I’ll say that reverence for Mary is unique in that it is always related to who her Son is, while respect for my mother, for example, is because of who she is as an individual. OldTax-lady stands on her own, regardless of her children, while Mary always stands in relationship to Jesus.


128 posted on 09/24/2013 1:55:36 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Tax-chick

Why can’t you answer the question?


129 posted on 09/24/2013 1:56:29 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Tax-chick

Thank you.


130 posted on 09/24/2013 1:59:15 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Because I’m a raging pain. Just ask my family!


131 posted on 09/24/2013 2:10:33 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Tax-chick

Naw...I think your family adores you just as you adore them. Take care!


132 posted on 09/24/2013 2:24:34 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Thanks!


133 posted on 09/24/2013 2:30:15 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: boatbums

I was not answering the question at first because I couldn’t bring myself to affirm even theoretically an impossibility. (That logic class ...)

However, I also was having difficulty finding the words to convey the purpose or “high-concept” of Catholic beliefs regarding Mary. Mary’s lifelong virginity is not just an “unknowable apart from revelation” fact, like her exact hair color, height, or age. It’s part of a integrated network of beliefs, all of which have their origin in and correspond to our beliefs about the nature and absolute uniqueness of the eternal Son of God who is also the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ. One very quickly jumps from strict narrative to poetry, because Christ is a reality unattainable to unaided human rationality!

If you’re interested in the Big Picture, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is, of course, a rock-solid source, while Scott Hahn’s “Hail, Holy Queen” is a popular and very accessible compendium.


134 posted on 09/25/2013 5:42:13 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Heart-Rest
The truth is, "adelphos" can mean several things, including "a brother, near kinsman, or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community", etc.

The Septuagint translators sometimes used the Greek word for brother (adelphos) in Old Testament passages in which a near relative or kinsman, who was not technically a physical brother, was under consideration. This claim is true. The Hebrew term for brother (‘ach) occasionally was used to refer to a more remote descendant from a common father who was not technically a brother.

After listing a few Old Testament verses where a broader meaning than strictly “brother” is in view, Bauer noted that such passages “do not establish the meaning ‘cousin’ for adelphos; they only show that in rendering the Hebrew ‘ach, adelphos is used loosely in isolated cases to designate masculine relatives of various degrees” (Arndt and Gingrich, 1957, p. 15, emp. added). In other words, no linguistic justification exists to support the notion that adelphoi could refer to the “cousins” of Jesus. The Septuagint translators employed adelphos for ‘ach in those passages where additional contextual evidence clarified the intended meaning. No such contextual evidence exists in the allusions to Jesus’ brothers in the New Testament, and is therefore an irrelevant comparison.

When we come to the New Testament, where the reference to the brothers of Jesus occurs, Von Soden correctly listed only two possible meanings for adelphos, namely, “either ‘physical brotherhood’ in the strict sense or more generally the ‘spiritual brotherhood’ of Israelites or Christians” (Kittel, 1964, 1:144). A broadened meaning for adelphos (to refer to a cousin) does not exist in the New Testament. As Walther Gunther clarified: “In no case in the New Testament can adelphos be interpreted with certainty in this sense” (Brown, 1975, 1:256). That’s putting it mildly. McClintock and Strong explained: “[W]hen the word is used in any but its proper sense, the context prevents the possibility of confusion…. If, then, the word ‘brethren’…really means ‘cousins’ or ‘kinsmen,’ it will be the only instance of such an application in which no data are given to correct the laxity of meaning” (1968, 895, emp. in orig.). Lewis stated even more decisively: “ ‘Brothers’ (adelphoi) never means ‘cousins’ in New Testament Greek”

Further, when referring to Jesus’ brothers, the expression “his brothers” occurs nine times in the Gospel accounts and once in Acts. In every instance (except in John 7:3,5,10), the brothers are mentioned in immediate connection with His mother, Mary. No linguistic indication whatsoever is present in the text for inferring that “His brothers” is to be understood in any less literal sense than “His mother”

Additionally, if the phrase “brothers and sisters” means “cousins” in Matthew 13:55-56 and Mark 6:3, then these “cousins” were the nephews and nieces of Mary. But why would the townspeople of Nazareth connect nephews and nieces of Mary with Joseph? Why would the townspeople mention nephews and nieces at all while omitting other extended family relatives? As Matthews commented, “Joseph, Mary, and their children were recognized as a typical family of Nazareth, and when Jesus began his unusual career, they merely asked if He was not a member of this family mentioning their names. If these children were nephews and nieces of Mary, why are they always associated with her and not with their mother?

The insistence that Mary remained a virgin her entire life is undoubtedly rooted in the unscriptural conception that celibacy is spiritually superior to marriage and child bearing. In both the Old and New Testaments, the Bible speaks of marriage as an honorable institution that was intended by God to be the norm for humanity from the very beginning of the Creation (Genesis 2:24; Proverbs 5:18-19; Matthew 19:4-6; 1 Corinthians 7:2; Hebrews 13:4).

Did Jesus Have Fleshly Half-Brothers?

135 posted on 09/25/2013 7:24:08 PM PDT by lasereye
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