Posted on 09/19/2013 5:41:50 PM PDT by James R. Aist
“Why baptize then?”
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Baptism is part of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19).
In the ritual of water baptism, the believer is immersed in water, and that is symbolic of death, and when the believer is brought out of the water, that is symbolic of resurrection to new life in Christ.
The ritual of water baptism is a picture of the fact that at the moment of salvation through faith in Christ as Savior, the believer is identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. This is called positional truth. (Romans 6)
The ritual of water baptism is not necessary for eternal salvation. The thief on the cross was saved without water baptism. (Luke 23:43)
The Bible maintains that “the wages of sin is death.” It then goes on to say, “all have sinned.” The prophet Jeremiah said of man, “the heart of man is “desperately sick,” or “deceitfully wicked.” God cannot allow the desperately sick or the deceitfully wicked entrance into heaven; or heaven would be defiled. Therefore, the only way a man can become righteous and be made holy is to be born-again. To be born-again is to have Christ, the Great Physician do a supernatural work on our desperately sick heart. Once Christ performs spiritual surgery on us, we then begin to grow into the image and likeness of Christ. We also receive a new nature, Peter defines as a “divine nature,” which grows, develops, and matures into what God intends us to do. To be born-again is a divine work, a supernatural work, that takes place in the central core of man’s being — his heart. At that moment we receive the “righteousness of Christ,” and become “new creatures in Christ.” The door of heaven opens to me due to the “righteousness of Christ,” not by my own works of righteousness, which God defines as “filthy rags.” Jesus said, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. In order to communicate and know God, one must be born of the Spirit of God. Those who have not been born-again, are spiritually dead “in trespasses and sin.” Dead men cannot hear, cannot speak, cannot contact God. The good news is, just as Jesus raised the physical dead, He likewise raises the spritual dead. Have you been born again?
OK then...
Ummm.. please explain.
I did, I said the people walk up, slap you on the back and say “Have you been born again?” to total strangers and I think it sounds stupid
It was hard enough being born once. No, thanks.
I like it!
FAITH and BELIEF in Our Lord, Jesus Christ, is essential, but not sufficient.
“...if I have all FAITH so as to move mountains, but do not have LOVE, I am nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13:2
Nice. Good word!
Point: Some people's approach is not the best, and slapping someone on the back and asking that question especially if total strangers is a bit off, but that question still should have an answer on your part.
Point: Considering Who is speaking in John 3:3 (Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.) it seems that the only kind of Christian there can possibly be is a born-again Christian, so it's not a stupid phrase no matter what you think.
Point: To claim anything else puts you at odds with the Author whether you personally are comfortable with the phraseology or not...
Point: Since the phrase is Biblical and spoken by no less an authority than Jesus, maybe you need to have a serious discussion with your Pastor/Priest/Preacherperson about how it applies to you personally so that you will have an answer if someone should walk up, slap you on the back and ask you “Have you been born again?”...
Jesus did not say born again, He said born from above. At conception the soul/spirit intellect is placed in the flesh. Those fallen angels of Genesis 6 and Jude, nor the first rebel, will not see or enter the kingdom of God.
“It was hard enough being born once. No, thanks.”
Well, have fun burning in hell.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:3)
“Your heretical interpretation.”
You mean the interpretation acknowledged by every Christian denomination, including the Papists (except the ignorant ones on FR). Unless you are born from above, spiritually regenerated, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.
Of course, we differ on how that happens. You think it was done in baptism. We think it was done by the Holy Spirit independent of baptism.
I've never heard a Catholic say that (Needless to say you'll tell me they all say it, so don't bother), but I've noticed it is an MO of you followers of Harold Camping.
Here we go!
“I’ve never heard a Catholic say that”
Of course not, they don’t believe that salvation is exclusively through Jesus Christ, but believe that non-believers “of good will” can be saved, without being born again.
Baptism by the Holy Spirit...meaning the Spirit indwells the new believer and begins directing him/her in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord (sanctification).
Baptism by water is an outward sign to other believers that you have been baptized by the Spirit and He now dwells in you.
http://utmost.org/classic/i-indeed-but-he-classic/
I Indeed… But He
I indeed baptize you with water . . . but He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire. — Matthew 3:11
Have I ever come to a place in my experience where I can say – “I indeed – but He”? Until that moment does come, I will never know what the baptism of the Holy Ghost means. I indeed am at an end, I cannot do a thing: but He begins just there – He does the things no one else can ever do. Am I prepared for His coming? Jesus cannot come as long as there is anything in the way either of goodness or badness. When He comes am I prepared for Him to drag into the light every wrong thing I have done? It is just there that He comes. Wherever I know I am unclean, He will put His feet; wherever I think I am clean, He will withdraw them.
Repentance does not bring a sense of sin, but a sense of unutterable unworthiness. When I repent, I realize that I am utterly helpless; I know all through me that I am not worthy even to bear His shoes. Have I repented like that? Or is there a lingering suggestion of standing up for myself? The reason God cannot come into my life is because I am not through into repentance.
“He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire.” John does not speak of the baptism of the Holy Ghost as an experience, but as a work performed by Jesus Christ. “He shall baptize you.” The only conscious experience those who are baptized with the Holy Ghost ever have is a sense of absolute unworthiness.
I indeed was this and that; but He came, and a marvellous thing happened. Get to the margin where He does everything.
http://utmost.org/sanctification-1/
Sanctification
This is the will of God, your sanctification. . . —1 Thessalonians 4:3
The Death Side. In sanctification God has to deal with us on the death side as well as on the life side. Sanctification requires our coming to the place of death, but many of us spend so much time there that we become morbid. There is always a tremendous battle before sanctification is realized— something within us pushing with resentment against the demands of Christ. When the Holy Spirit begins to show us what sanctification means, the struggle starts immediately. Jesus said, “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate . . . his own life . . . he cannot be My disciple” (Luke 14:26).
In the process of sanctification, the Spirit of God will strip me down until there is nothing left but myself, and that is the place of death. Am I willing to be myself and nothing more? Am I willing to have no friends, no father, no brother, and no self-interest— simply to be ready for death? That is the condition required for sanctification. No wonder Jesus said, “I did not come to bring peace but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). This is where the battle comes, and where so many of us falter. We refuse to be identified with the death of Jesus Christ on this point. We say, “But this is so strict. Surely He does not require that of me.” Our Lord is strict, and He does require that of us.
Am I willing to reduce myself down to simply “me”? Am I determined enough to strip myself of all that my friends think of me, and all that I think of myself? Am I willing and determined to hand over my simple naked self to God? Once I am, He will immediately sanctify me completely, and my life will be free from being determined and persistent toward anything except God (see 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).
When I pray, “Lord, show me what sanctification means for me,” He will show me. It means being made one with Jesus. Sanctification is not something Jesus puts in me— it is Himself in me (see 1 Corinthians 1:30).
I would say do a little digging and a little research into it and ask God to open your eyes as to its meaning.
I did not know what it meant either until I was born again. When you are, there is no doubt. You know you are different, you know something has happened. And so it has...the Spirit of God has taken up residency in your heart.
I have also posted above a little more about it. But don’t take my word...prayerfully ask the Lord and He will tell you.
God bless you,
Jody
I believe we had this discussion on another thread, Thoughts, and Jesus did say “born again” in Aramaic.
And since born again and born from above both mean being filled with the Holy Spirit, either term works.
Born again...spiritual rebirth, not physical
Born from above...spiritual rebirth, not physical
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