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To: Gamecock; AmericanInTokyo; Diamond; napscoordinator; wagglebee; xzins; cripplecreek; P-Marlowe; ...
I do not know enough about this speaker to evaluate him or his views.

I do, however, believe there is a certain type of cultural defeatism which is gaining ground in both broadly evangelical and confessionally Reformed circles.

The speaker may not hold that view. I don't know.

What I do know is that when a culture which once accepted Christian values, though often for secular reasons, makes a massive shift to the point that it openly embraces wickedness, things have not improved.

There are good secular reasons to support marriage, thrift, work ethics, sexual morality, and other cultural manifestations of Christian ethics.

A culture which throws those values away will rapidly move from tolerating Christians as a minority faith to openly despising and attacking Christians for being “intolerant” or otherwise rejecting the new anti-Christian secular ethics.

Such a culture also will not last very long. It will either wither into irrelevance or be replaced by some sort of secular or non-Christian faith which aggressively advocates its own version of cultural conservatism.

I freely grant that there are secular systems and non-Christian faiths which can work to one degree or another in building a culture on a different foundation. Islam, as bad as it is, did successfully build a culture. Similar things could be said for the role of Confucian ethics in Asia. Of course, those systems have horrible problems because they are built on the wrong foundation, but at least they are founded on something.

The moral relativism which is inherent in liberalism is not in that category. Put bluntly, liberalism doesn't work. It is an acid which destroys culture, not a system of beliefs which provide a foundation for culture.

I fear we are going to learn that the hard way.

27 posted on 09/17/2013 9:34:25 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina

“What I do know is that when a culture which once accepted Christian values, though often for secular reasons, makes a massive shift to the point that it openly embraces wickedness, things have not improved.”

Yes, but God always builds his victories on the rubble of human failure and defeat.


28 posted on 09/17/2013 9:43:04 PM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: darrellmaurina; Gamecock; AmericanInTokyo; Diamond; napscoordinator; wagglebee; xzins; ...
I do, however, believe there is a certain type of cultural defeatism which is gaining ground in both broadly evangelical and confessionally Reformed circles.

You bring up a good point.

Although I happen to agree with this author, I'm always concerned that I sound defeatist. I don't look upon it as defeatist but rather pragmatism. Our Lord stated that we should be wise as serpents but innocent as doves. There is nothing wrong with a healthy examination of the world around us. OTOH we really need to get a good swift kick in the pants and get out there and share God's message. But you can't preach a message of hope in the cross without talking about taking up your cross and following.

Every law God has ever given was for our benefit and welfare. Moral laws are given to us whether you're a believer or not. They are standards like the Ten Commandments that helps society. When a nation enforces these laws, Christian or not, society thrives. When a nation willfully abandons God's moral codes, it lead to a degenerate society. God gives these societies over to the hardening of our hearts, and we sink deeper into sin and depravity. It is a cycle that is repeated time and again.

At no time in history do I ever recall so much abandonment of these moral codes by so many nations at one time. Virtually the whole world has abandoned these moral codes. The US is not alone. Asia, Europe, Australia, the America, have all turned a blind eye to justice, truth and God himself. They have made enemies of God. God grants His people an understanding of this by giving us evidence. The rise of homosexuality and a stifling of God's word should be proof to Christians that God has turned His hand from us as a nation and as a world. Historically, the end result of this level of depravity was destruction of the nation. What happens when everyone is in the same boat isn't very hard to imagine.

34 posted on 09/18/2013 5:04:40 PM PDT by HarleyD
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