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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
There is nothing more meaningless than a religion that preaches that you don’t have to convert to it.

If a person is never formally introduced to Christ, through no fault of his own, yet serves goodness and truth, to the best of his ability, then he may be saved. The possibility exists.

If such a person is saved, it would be by the grace of God, mediated through Christ and His Church.

Conversely, any person who understands that entrance into Christ's Church through baptism is normative for salvation, is obligated to enter into His Church.

10 posted on 09/13/2013 4:50:59 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

“If a person... serves goodness and truth... If such a person is saved, it would be by the grace of God”


To make this more plain, you are saying that if one “serves goodness and truth,” presumably by doing good works, he can receive the grace of God. However, the scripture says “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt” (Rom 4:4). And again, “by grace ye are saved” (Eph 2:5). To say that grace is the reward of works is insidious and wrong.

“mediated through Christ and His Church.”


This would be impossible, since: 1) They do not believe in Christ. 2) By definition they have nothing to do with the church. In order to be mediated by Christ, one must believe in Christ. One cannot believe in Christ by not believing. Nor can anyone have faith in Christ who have never heard of Christ.

“If a person is never formally introduced to Christ, through no fault of his own,”


All those who do not believe in Christ are, through fault of their own, condemned by their sins. As the scripture says, all men are guilty before God, regardless of how much “light” they have received (Rom 3:19). As all men have received, to a certain extent, the law of God imprinted on their hearts, as well as the light of nature revealing the existence of God, therefore they are summarily rendered “without excuse,” (Rom 1:20, 2:14) and “as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Rom 2:12). And again, “for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God”(Rom 3:9-11). Your sentiments deny these scriptures and undermine the Gospel, which therefore, actually, puts you yourself outside of Christianity. For those born before the coming of Christ, “salvation is of the Jews,” (John 4:22), and therefore all those who were outside of God’s covenant people are damned; however, now that Christ has come, salvation is again limited to God’s peculiar people whom God has predestinated before the world began.

How can they claim ignorance when they themselves affirm that their lies are evil, that their adulteries are wrong, that their homosexual abominations and other crimes are filthy, that they have fallen short, even though they take pleasure in them? What does it matter to God if they justify and excuse themselves? Isn’t that the nature of all mankind, to justify ourselves and think of ourselves as Holy? What does He care if they sear their conscience to their sins? Is God obligated to save everyone or reason with everyone personally? Is God obligated to appear to every individual, or to save those people who He has not made a covenant with? And how can they have any good works at all, when “whatsoever is not of faith is sin” (Rom 14:23)? And again, “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” (Isaiah 64:6)? If you say that there is a righteous infidel out there in the world, you deny the Holy Scriptures which says that there is “no one good, save one, that is, God.”

God is not obligated to save everyone. He is obligated only to His own promise, and by nothing else. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth (Rom 9:18). Who are you to challenge God on why He damned all the people in the new world, or people on remote islands? Do you think that God is not the God of providence, who ordained that they should be born in those lands where they would die without ever hearing the hope of the Gospel? But if men are not guilty of anything until they hear the Gospel, or absolutely reject it, isn’t God then obligated to appear to everyone in the same flashy manner as He did to Paul on the road to Damascus? After all, can’t it be argued that everyone deserves the same EQUAL chance for salvation? “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?”(Rom 9:20-21).

On the contrary, if God chooses to save any one, it is mercy that He does so. And if God does not save that person, it is in judgment that He does so. If God is obligated to have mercy on all people, then mercy is, in fact, justice, and judgment is injustice. To say otherwise is to deny original sin and the effect it has had on human beings. It is to deny what the scripture so plainly says, that all have fallen short of the glory of God, that all are under the punishment of sin (Jews and Gentiles alike), and that all are dead in sins until quickened by the Holy Spirit, by whom men believe in Christ.


11 posted on 09/13/2013 5:05:05 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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