Pope Francis: overcome temptation to be "Christians without Jesus" (Daily Mass)

Radio Vaticana ^ | 9/7/2013

[Romulus]

Jesus is real and not just an ethical concept. Nor is he a divine spirit hiding in a skin suit. Remembering his mother helps us remember that.

[BipolarBob]

Mary as the demigoddess or Queen of Heaven as she is worshiped is NOT in the Bible. Mary, mother of Jesus, is in the Bible.

[BipolarBob]

Remembering his mother helps us remember that.

Having idols may help you remember. Fingering rosary beads may help you remember. Worshiping dead people may help you remember. But those are not what is taught in the Bible or by Jesus. If you want to remember, pray to Jesus to help your memory. That is what is Biblical.

[BipolarBob]

Nor is he a divine spirit hiding in a skin suit.

This may come as a shocker to you but He has dropped the skin suit.

[Romulus]

Unbiblical. Hmm. So the Bible is the point of reference for you? Now THAT’S unbiblical.

[BipolarBob]

Unbiblical. Hmm. So the Bible is the point of reference for you? Now THAT’S unbiblical.

Prov. 30:5,6 Every Word of God is pure, He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

[Biggirl]

What has been going on in the Middle East the last couple of months, but in a special way the last couple of days is a reminder that regardless of what church community believers worship, we are all part of the large family tree known as the Christian faith.

[markomalley]

Today's Mass reflects a recurring theme of Francis' daily fervorini:

He talks about being a "Christian" without Christ. He has frequently examined the Church that does not first and foremost point people toward Christ, calling it a "pitiful NGO" in those circumstances. For example:

• 3/14/13: "Building: to build the Church. There is talk of stones: stones have consistency, but [the stones spoken of are] living stones, stones anointed by the Holy Spirit. Build up the Church, the Bride of Christ, the cornerstone of which is the same Lord."
  
  … In the end, "we can walk as much we want, we can build many things, but if we do not confess Jesus Christ, nothing will avail. We will become a pitiful NGO, but not the Church, the Bride of Christ. When one does not walk, one stalls…When one does not build on solid rocks, what happens? What happens is what happens to children on the beach when they make sandcastles: everything collapses, it is without consistency. …When one does not profess Jesus Christ, one professes the worldliness of the devil.
  
  
• 5/18/13: The Church is not a political movement, or a well-organized structure: it is not that. We are not an NGO, and when the Church becomes an NGO it loses its salt, it has no taste, it's just an empty organization. And this - be clever! Because the devil deceives us, because there is the danger of hyper - efficiency. One thing is to preach Jesus, effectiveness, being efficient is another thing: no, that's another value. The value of the Church, basically, is to live the Gospel and give witness to our faith. To be the 'salt of the earth, light of the world’, is called to make present in society the yeast of the Kingdom of God and do it first with our witness, our witness of fraternal love, solidarity, sharing. When you hear some say that solidarity is not a value, it is a primary attitude that needs to be done away with... there’s something wrong! Today people are only concerned with worldly efficacy. The moments of crisis, such as the one we are experiencing – as you mentioned before, "we are in a world of lies", no? Lies, it is a crisis - this time of crisis, but ... let's be careful, ok? It is not only an economic crisis, it is a cultural crisis. It is a human crisis: what is in crisis is mankind! And what can be destroyed, is mankind! Mankind, the image of God! For this is a deep crisis. In this time of crisis we cannot worry only about ourselves, close in on ourselves in loneliness, discouragement, in a sense of helplessness before our problems. Please do not close in on yourselves! That is a danger. But ... we lock ourselves up inside our parish, among our friends, in our movement, with people who think the same as we do ... But, what is happening? When the Church becomes closed in on itself, it gets sick. Think of a closed room, a room locked for a year, when you go, there is a smell of damp, all these things here, that's not right. A Church that is closed in on itself is just the same, it is a sick Church.
  
  “The Church must go out from herself. Where? Towards the existential outskirts”, even if that means risking accidents along the way, in the outward journey. To those who worry about what can happen to the Pope responds : “I prefer a thousand times a Church damaged by an accident, than a sick Church closed in on itself”. Faith- he added - is an encounter with Jesus, and we must do the same, help others to encounter Jesus.
  
  
• 6/11/13: "Everything is grace. Everything. And what are the signs of when an apostle lives this gratuity? There are so many, but I will underline only two: First, poverty. The proclamation of the Gospel must follow the path of poverty. The testimony of this poverty: I have no wealth, my wealth is the gift I received, God: this gratuity is our wealth! And this poverty saves us from becoming managers, entrepreneurs ... The works of the Church must be brought forward, and some are a little complex, but with a heart of poverty, not with the heart of an investment broker or an entrepreneur…"
  
  Pope Francis continued, "The Church is not an NGO: it is something else, something more important, and this is the result of gratuity. Received and proclaimed". Poverty "is one of the signs of this gratuity." The other sign "is the ability of praise: when an apostle does not live this gratuity, he or she loses the ability to praise the Lord." Praising the Lord, in fact, "is essentially gratuitous, it is a gratuitous prayer: we do not ask, we only praise"
  
  "These two are the signs of an apostle who lives this gratuity: poverty and the ability to praise the Lord. And when we find the apostles who want to build a rich Church and a Church without the gratuitousness of praise, the Church becomes old, the Church becomes an NGO, the Church becomes lifeless. Today we ask the Lord for the grace to acknowledge this generosity: 'Freely you have received, freely give'. Recognizing this gratuity, this gift of God . Let us move forward in preaching of Gospel".
  
  
• 7/28/13: The Church is an institution, but when she makes herself a “centre”, she becomes merely functional, and slowly but surely turns into a kind of NGO. The Church then claims to have a light of her own, and she stops being that “mysterium lunae” of which the Church Fathers spoke. She becomes increasingly self-referential and loses her need to be missionary. From an “institution” she becomes a “enterprise”. She stops being a bride and ends up being an administrator; from being a servant, she becomes an “inspector”. Aparecida wanted a Church which is bride, mother and servant, a facilitator of faith and not an inspector of faith.

Today's exhortation is just a different twist on a common theme: the need for radical conversion (at both the individual and institutional levels) and the utter need to become completely dependent solely upon Christ.

[BipolarBob]

that regardless of what church community believers worship, we are all part of the large family tree known as the Christian faith.

really? Is that what you believe? That's not what I read on these forums. I hear "There's only ONE TRUE CHURCH." And some nonsense about an apostolic succession (also unBiblical). Also how about "There's 15 thousand Brand X churchs out there but only is built on the first Pope Peter". A Christian is one who follows Christs teachings (not a Church) and practices. You don't even worship on the same day Jesus did. That family tree needs some pruning to get back to what Jesus taught.

[Biggirl]

Leave the tree as is.

[Biggirl]

“A Christian is one who follows Christs teachings (not a Church) and practices.”

A Chrisitan is RATHER one who BELIEVES in Jesus Christ as LORD.

[Biggirl]

“That family tree needs some pruning to get back to what Jesus taught.”

Best not to prune it, leave it alone as is.

[BipolarBob]

Leave the tree as is.

Yes, that's the safest thing to do. And probably what Pope Francis is talking about here. And it is also what the world wants as well. Let's just leave everything the way it is. Everyone feels nice and snug and comfortable.

[BipolarBob]

A Chrisitan is RATHER one who BELIEVES in Jesus Christ as LORD.

Just what I said. That's what Jesus taught. To believe on Him.

[Iscool]

Even today, “if Jesus is not at the centre, there will be many other things,” so that “we meet many Christians without Christ, without Jesus:

A false theology from a false leader of a false religion...It is just mind boggling that this pope, this religion teaches you can be a Christian without Jesus Christ...

Does anyone know why that is??? It's obvious...In the Catholic religion you become a Christian by joining the Catholic fraternity, as long as someone sprinkled some water on you...

You are not a Christian if Jesus Christ is not your Savior, and you are not a Christian if you teach otherwise as your popes do...

[Biggirl]

AMEN to that.

[Biggirl]

And that is what Pope Francis has been teaching.

[Iscool]

SendShaq: Obviously you miss his point that many think that one can be a Christian without Jesus. It may be obvious, but in today’s world, it is NOT. Be slower to call the Pope or any other Christian, an “idiot” for teaching the truth to those who either do not know or do not believe.

I don't believe you because how could these Jesusless Christians not know???... They go to your church...What were they taught before they were allowed membership to your so-called body of christ???

A real Christian, leader or not would not pussyfoot around like this...He'd tell people that if you are without Jesus Christ, you are NOT a Christian whether you think you are or not...

So now we have to ask...What kind of Catholic Christians are those at FR??? The kind with Jesus or Christians without Jesus???

[Iscool]

Jesus is real and not just an ethical concept. Nor is he a divine spirit hiding in a skin suit. Remembering his mother helps us remember that.

Perhaps if you guys were indwelt with the Holy Spirit as all Christians are, you wouldn't have so much trouble remembering who Jesus is, without clinging to his mother...

[Iscool]

Unbiblical. Hmm. So the Bible is the point of reference for you? Now THAT’S unbiblical.

Sorry if I come across as too harsh, but if you really believe that, you are not qualified to be in the conversation...

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

God made sure his words were written in the books of the bible so that they are near to us for us to read, learn, and memorize...

The bible is the only point of reference we need, according to God...