Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: HenryArmitage
""If prayer is not worship, where is the line drawn?"

A reasonable question! Let me sketch out a little background for this, in hope this will help.

If you want examples of adoration ---- what the Catholic Church calls latria, “the kind of supreme honor due to God alone” --- look at a prayer from the Mass called the Gloria:

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.
We praise you, we bless you,
we adore you, we glorify you,
we give you thanks,
for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.

Lord Jesus Christ,
Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
have mercy on us.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.

What strikes you is the absolute quality of the honor being given to God. This is what can only be given to the Creator, Ruler, Savior, Enlightener, absolute Judge of all.

Any other form of honor, properly given to a lesser being, whether angelic or human, is called dulia.

The gestures of “dulia” have varied across cultures and across the centuries. For instance, one might think that bowing to the ground is a sure sign of adoration being given. However, this is not the case according to the Bible.

Look up "kneel(ing)" and "bow(ing)" in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and you’ll find so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.

• Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz; David prostrates before Jonathan; David prostrates to Saul; Abigail prostrates to David; Saul prostrates to Samuel; Nathan prostrates to David; Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah; the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha; the "whole assembly" bows low and prostrates before David; David bows toward the Temple; David prostrates toward Jerusalem; God causes the king's adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and "lick the dust at his feet"; the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion. And that’s not even the half of it!

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor. The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give human honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

It’s had to take in the whole scope of it. I hope this furnishes a good beginning.

111 posted on 08/27/2013 3:06:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Your favorite schoolmarm.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies ]


To: Mrs. Don-o

Serious question for you, Mrs. Don-o. I find hundreds of Marian prayers on-line, but when I search for prayers to Jesus Christ, mostly all I find (Catholic.org was a major source) are prayers “to the ‘sacred heart’ of Jesus.” What the heck is this about?

I also found one “to the Infant Jesus.” But none directed directly to Jesus. Why the indirect praying?


119 posted on 08/27/2013 3:23:45 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o; HenryArmitage
>> It’s had to take in the whole scope of it.<<

Well, maybe we should see the “whole scope”. Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]

I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.

we cast ourselves into your arms

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)

confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)

O crystal fountain of faith

Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)

Lily of all holiness

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)

Conqueress of evil and death

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)

Convert the wicked

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)

Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.

182 posted on 08/27/2013 4:58:09 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson