Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
Toulouse was not an ecumenical council and its decrees were local and temporary. In order to fight the Albegensian heresy.
Like I said, historical context matters.
Don't make things up...It said nothing about corrupt translations...Obviously if the translation wasn't corrupt, it would have been destroyed as well...
How does receiving a gift of grace translate into me "earning" something? What is so difficult about the concept of grace (i.e. God's gift of Himself) transforming us?The intial saving grace for Catholics recieved via baptism can be said to be a gift.
The grace recieved via the sacraments is "free" but is essentially "spiritual power" that enables one to perform good works "essential" to salvation.
"Rome says that Christ made an atonement for sin, meriting the grace by which a person is justified but that the work of Christ is not the exclusive cause of an individual’s justification and salvation. Ludwig Ott makes this statement:
Christ’s redemptive activity finds its apogee in the death of sacrifice on the cross. On this account it is by excellence but not exclusively the efficient cause of our redemption....No one can be just to whom the merits of Christ’s passion have not been communicated. It is a fundamental doctrine of St. Paul that salvation can be acquired only by the grace merited by Christ (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp. 185, 190).
According to the Church of Rome, Christ did not accomplish a full, finished and completed salvation in his work of atonement. His death on the cross did not deal with the full penalty of man's sin. It merited grace for man which is then channeled to the individual through the Roman Catholic Church and its sacraments. This grace then enables man to do works of righteousness in order to merit justification and eternal life."
http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/gospelrcsalvation.html
Your religion made that up and you are just repeating it...The definition of grace is given by the scriptures, not your religion...
There is no working whatsoever whether it be God or mankind...Grace is so free, no one even has to ask for it...
Interesting that he spoke of the bread and wine as symbols for the flesh and blood of Christ not of any “presence” that would make actual flesh and blood as the teaching is today in the Roman Catholic church.
Metmom agreed with me above that faith without works is dead.
You are basically correct that grace can be thought of as “spiritual power.” It is God giving of Himself in order to transform us.
This grace is freely received in the sacraments and not because of any action I do to merit it.
If we take God’s grace and do nothing with it, we have rejected God, have rejected salvation.
If we respond to the grace and show good works, we are in the same situation you are in. With a faith and works to show for it.
Obviously, if there were no corrupt translations, there would be no reason to ban reading them.
Historical context.
Are you now as you will be in Heaven? Will you be perfected?
And they teach this ungodly filth in spite of what the scriptures say...Doctrines of Devils...
If we take God's grace and do nothing with it except believe and trust Jesus to be our Savior, we are saved Christians...
How could you do nothing but believe? Unless you die immediately after your conversion, that is. But let’s talk normal cases, OK.
“Faith without works is not dead.” Is that you position?
And which "Christian Church" is that again? The one that baptizes infants or adults only? The one that has sacraments or not? The one with predestination or free will? Where is the consistency, the interpretation, the authenticating? LOLMajors and minors. Does the Lord really care about his Children believe in predestination or free will?
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
The Lord admonishes the 7 churches in Rev. who had much worse problems than protestants to clean up their act.
Even They are STILL His Churches!
Note also His remedy for these churches is NOT to look to ROME, or the Pope, or the "one true church".
What does that have to do with free grace???
Why are you asking??? You've likely read the Protestant position here at least a thousand times...You should know the bible says and we believe (it) good works are a result of the Holy Spirit working in the believer...If the Holy Spirit doesn't do the good works, they are as filthy rags...
Well, let’s work on that “problem” as you see it. How about we take one subject we differ on and look at scripture to find justification or validation of one point or the other. You did see the end of that quote you posted from me that said “from scripture” right?
How about we take the assumption of Mary. How about you give me the “valid” deductive reasoning and scripture to back up that reasoning for the assumption of Mary.
Then there is the problem that even if they do read the Bible it’s with the teaching of the RCC as guidance for understanding rather than the Holy Spirit. From our experience here we can see that the RCC trumps scripture in their minds.
That’s a rather ostentatious priest to Dagon the fish god hat that guy has on.
Faith - Not mental assent, a deep belief and acceptance in the Gospel. We believe in the Lord's Life, Burial and Resurrection. We accept Him at His word that those who Believe HAVE eternal life, not conditional life. We believe Him when he paid for ALL our sins (past, present, future), he took upon the tree all our sin and we took on HIS Righteousness. He accomplished it all, there is nothing that we lack in HIS sight. We continue to become like Him (Sanctification), but We already have His Righteousness in God's sight.
Works - Our works, done in HIS service are from Love, Gratitude, and our duty as His purchased trophies of Grace. We have been changed, our affections our different, We Love the Brethren, we occasionally sin and our regretful. Sin is no longer direction of our lives, We WANT to please Him. See 1 John 1.
James 2 is for those who say they have Faith, but do not show a change in their life or attitude. They either have only mental assent or are fooling themselves. Faith produces works. Fig tree and fruit. If there is no change in ones life, there is no life.
Abolutely, sola ecclesia
Now there is a lie of the RCC that needs correcting.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.<<
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,<<
It’s not just “the representatives He left here on Earth for us” that have that Holy Spirit. It’s all believers who have that Holy Spirit and are representatives of Him here on earth. And that’s just a small example of how the RCC has lied to it’s followers. I would encourage you to pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you rather than look to the RCC for that guidance.
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