MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

[NYer]

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
6. “The music is better.”
7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people

[metmom]

However, it’s a misconception that Catholics don’t read the Bible. Many of us do.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but it certainly isn't commonly practiced by the majority of the Catholics I've ever met. Most of them are still operating on the *Catholics don't/shouldn't read the Bible because they are incapable of "properly" understanding or interpreting it.*

If that is changing, that's good, but to portray that as being normal, isn't really going to fly. There are too many former Catholics on this board who know differently from their own real life experience.

[Melian]

When Christ was asked how we should pray, He gave us the Lord’s Prayer. He didn’t yell it, sing it in harmony, put in a lot of wordy “Lord, I just...”.

Scripture does not say he swayed, danced, yelled, had an exaggerated expression of raptness on His face, or expected His apostles to chime in with Amens or Hallelujahs.

The way to pray that Our Lord taught us was a simple, solemn, direct, and reverent method. Again, Catholics are closer to this in our prayers than many other religions.

[metmom]

However I have found direct praise and exaltation of Jesus and the Father (and sometimes based on context, even the Holy Spirit) is a powerful thing. I’d urge unsure Catholics to try changing their mix to see what happens. Start, for example, by doubling down on Jesus and the Father. I am bold and say that yes it will show empirically.

That's the challenge that I think all Catholics should take. Just try it and see where it leads.

What could go wrong in praising and worshiping God and Jesus more and others less? Or focusing on God only and others not at all?

I think that could apply to prayer as well.

Maybe they aren't getting the answers they'd like to see because God is waiting for them to ask Him themselves instead of elbowing a saint and saying *Psst.... Ask Him for me, wouldja?*

Maybe He's just waiting for the opportunity to prove Himself to them, but they won't give Him only the chance.

[Melian]

I don’t know about that but all the serious Catholics I know read the Bible on their own and in Mass. We have Bible studies at every parish I have ever been a part of in my entire life.

You may be hearing a bunch of malarky from Catholics who are choosing not to practice their faith and feel conflicted about it. They may find it easier to tell you they left because we don’t read the Bible than to admit the real reason to you.

I would challenge you to go to any Catholic Church and pick up a bulletin from last week’s Mass. In it, you will find Scripture passages, reflections, and the classes being offered. I would bet you’ll find a Bible study in there. We have two listed in my parish bulletin just this week. You’ll also find a list of all the people who need our prayer and who are growing in their faith journey through the Sacraments. The most amazing part will be the section that lists parish organizations. You will see all the ways Catholics practice their faith on a daily basis through good works.

[bkaycee]

You appear to be serious about accepting a personal salvational relationship with your Lord. With that perspective you’re now asking “OK what’s the big deal here.” You’re saved. Well you do have the 500 ton elephant called your Magisterium. Er, my master (magister in Latin) is Jesus Christ. This looks to we Crazy Evangelicals like an attempt to say God didn’t just guide, He outsourced. That won’t dash your salvation. It will warp your walk....

Yes, I would agree that Melian sounds serious about her faith, unfortunately, Catholic doctrine says that no one can know for sure if they are in fact "Saved".

Catholic doctrine states that salvation is faith and works, not by faith alone.

The grace needed for Salvation is mostly received thru the sacraments and empowers the recipient to earn his own salvation (or at least maintain salvation), actually becoming righteous in his or her own standing to earn heaven.

For the Catholic, conversion (being born again) occurs by water baptism and makes Salvation possible. The new life must be maintained and righteousness increased by the sacraments and good works, but can be lost via mortal sin, which must be confessed to and forgiven by a priest.

This cycle continues until one is actually righteous enough for Heaven or death at which point the person must under go painful cleansing in purgatory before heaven.

Catholics are not Saved by putting on the Righteousness of Christ, they are saved by attaining their own righteousness with the help of grace mostly received by the sacraments.

[smvoice]

EXCELLENT idea, mm. I pray that more Catholics see your post and decide to try it. Just for a little time. THen report back to us with their results. Do you think they would tell us? I’m wondering. Seriously wondering.

[Melian]

And, by the way, the weekly bulletin at a Catholic parish lists the scripture for one reason... so we can go home and read it and reflect on it through the week.

Your assertions do not hold water. We revere and read Scripture. We’re just doing it quietly. Go and find out. Get a parish bulletin and see.

[Melian]

If you want to privately message me a neutral address, I will mail you my parish bulletin from this Sunday. Prepare to be surprised.

[metmom]

He said not everyone who cries, “Lord, Lord” is saved and that it’s difficult to get to Heaven.

Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. And it is not difficult to get to heaven because it's not by works, it's by faith. Works make it hard.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

Romans 10:8-13 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

1 Corinthians 1:2-3 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[bkaycee]

Maybe its just in the north east, but after 27 years as a Catholic with 12 years of Catholic parochial school, I never saw anyone carry or read a bible.

I never read a bible in church or school. We had religion classes where I am sure snippets of scripture were read, and obviously we heard scripture read for 3 or 4 minutes every Sunday.

[Melian]

Thank you, bkaycee. You said it far better than I. Catholics believe Christ made it clear that we must live out His teachings at great personal sacrifice.

God bless you!

[metmom]

I don’t. The Protestant worship I have witnessed is not clear and directed. It rambles and is often very repetitious. Many worshippers seem to be trying to out-pray, out-sing, and out-holy each other.

I have been in a few Pentecostal type churches where that happens, but it is not typical of non-Catholicism by any means.

It seems pretty typical of the Pentecostal movement, however, and from what I've seen, even charismatic Catholic churches are not an exception.

And Catholics do not have a corner on the not impressed with that kind of behavior market.

Christ valued private, quiet, restrained prayer, remember?

And you know this how? There is no record of every instance of Christ praying or worshiping so there is no way ANYONE can make claims about how He did it all the time.

Even in this, Catholics are closer to the Scripture.

There's not really any churches which seem to be close to the early NT church as found in the book of Acts. I know a lot of denominations which like to claim they are; Catholics , Pentecostals, etc, and could not be more different than each other and both cannot be right.

[metmom]

When Christ was asked how we should pray, He gave us the Lord’s Prayer. He didn’t yell it, sing it in harmony, put in a lot of wordy “Lord, I just...”.

Scripture does not say he swayed, danced, yelled, had an exaggerated expression of raptness on His face, or expected His apostles to chime in with Amens or Hallelujahs.

The way to pray that Our Lord taught us was a simple, solemn, direct, and reverent method. Again, Catholics are closer to this in our prayers than many other religions.

And where does prayers to saints fit in there? Jesus NEVER taught us to pray to anyone but the Father. There's no way you can claim with any credibility that Catholic prayers are more Scriptural when they DON'T follow Jesus' teaching.

[Melian]

bkaycee, I can’t explain that. See some of my comments to metmom on this thread about Catholics and the Bible.

I can only tell you that on the Left Coast, our parishes have Bible studies, prayer groups, Scripture passages listed in the bulletin to read over at home and reflect upon, and, at Mass, we have a short reading from the Old Testament, a song from the Psalms, a reading from the New Testament and a reading from the Gospels. It’s more like 20 minutes of Scripture. Then the priest launches into his homily reflection on that day’s Scripture... and I guess I don’t have to tell you he might go on for another 10-20 minutes! So it works out to about a half hour on the Scriptures and a half hour for the Eucharistic Celebration.

If you want to private message me a safe, neutral address, I will mail you a copy of this Sunday’s parish bulletin so you can see for yourself. I will even mail you several from several different parishes so you can compare them and see that’s the norm here.

[metmom]

Believe me, I know what mass is like.

Been there, done that.

When I first came to Christ and accepted Him as my personal (not group) Lord and Savior, and was born again, I went back to the Catholic church since that was where I had been raised. And I STARTED reading the Bible. After all, Catholics just didn’t do that.

After all, I was taught my whole life that it was a sin to go to a non-Catholic church. But few months there and I started to see the difference between what Scripture taught and the Catholic church taught.

And I do know about Catholicism. Two priests and a nun in the family ensured that.

[metmom]

You will see all the ways Catholics practice their faith on a daily basis through good works.

Not the people I was related to, lived with, went to school with, and worked with.

And I lived in a highly Catholic area.

Maybe there are some who go out and do good deeds, but for most, their religion has little bearing on their everyday life, their ethics (such as not stealing from or cheating the company), how they treat others, their voting habits (all liberal to the core), etc.

But all faithful, good, attending mass more than once a week, Catholics.

[Melian]

We know when Christ prayed He went off alone and prayed in a desert. No loud singing, no harmonizing men versus women contests, no swaying. No shouting out.

He went off alone to pray and He told us to pray and fast in secret. No show.

[metmom]

The whole problem Catholics are going to find out with their methods is that once one sins ONE sin, they are damned.

Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

Nobody gets to heaven without being PERFECT, and not one person except Jesus qualifies.

So even if the Catholic sinned only ONE sin in their entire life, and the rest of their life was perfect as they strive to be, they would STILL be damned if they were depending on that.

[metmom]

I don’t know.

It would mean admitting that we were right.

And by default, they were wrong.

[metmom]

I will take your word for it.

But I still contend that it is not the norm nor was it for a very long time.

And like I said, if that’s changing, that is good. It’s well past due.