MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

[NYer]

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
6. “The music is better.”
7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people

[bkaycee]

then you are not an Orthodox Christian...and read James 3:17-20....it makes for good reading and points out that you are wrong.

I never said I was Orthodox.

James 2 says that those who say they believe but show no change in their lives by living out their faith in good works are not "justified" in their claim of "true" Faith.

In his epistle, James makes the statement “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Faith without works is dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. There are many Scriptures that make it very clear that true saving faith will result in a transformed life which is demonstrated by the “works” we do. How we live reveals what we believe and whether the faith we profess to have is a living faith.

James 2:14-26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other Scriptures.

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God, but instead he is making it clear that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ with a life that shows no works has a false or dead faith and is not saved. James is clearly making a contrast between two different types of faith—truth faith that saves and false faith that is dead. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-without-works-dead.html

[Jvette]

I don’t agree, obviously.

The Trinity, as we know it today, was unknown for years after the resurrection, but the Truth of it existed hundreds of years before it was known.

The Apostles never taught it, nor did they even try to explain it. We have no clear idea of what or how the Apostles thought regarding the Trinity, but we can find the Truth hidden in Scripture.

Hundreds of years after the resurrection, there are those who deny the Trinity, who do not know this truth. Does that mean that it is heretical since we cannot find any explicit teachings on it in the NT?

[bkaycee]

As a Catholic, I was never taught Church History, The politics, the bad popes, the French popes, the split with the Orthodox, the late dates of the Marian and other beliefs.

They lost their way a couple hundred years after Constantine married the church to the state.

[Jvette]

Again, very good examples given here and in your succeeding posts whereby we can know that Jesus is indeed God. But, Scripture does not ever say outright, Jesus is God.

It is for this reason that psuedo Christian religions can believe that Jesus is not the one true God of the OT.

[metmom]

Ya know what I can’t figure?

Catholics claim that the Catholic church wrote the Bible.

Catholics claim that the Church has not changed in 2,000 years.

And yet, there is so much in the Bible that contradicts or outright condemns current Catholics teaching.

If our interpretation is wrong, don’t you think they could have done a better job of writing it in the first place?

And if they didn’t do a better job of writing it in the first place, then how can it be depended on at all? Why do THEY appeal to it to support their doctrine.

And if so much of current teaching has ALWAYS been believed, why wasn’t it included in the first place? Certainly the most important stuff would have and should have been included instead of being left to *tradition*....

[Melian]

“The only megachurch service I ever attended was essentially a rock concert followed by a motivational speech.”

Agreed! But you forgot the part of the service where they all try to out-sing each other and out-pray each other. Who can sing the loudest or does the best harmony? Who can pray the loudest or present the most rapt countenance? Who can say, “Lord, I just...” the most times in single prayer? A far cry from the quiet, private, personal prayer Christ practiced and taught.

I love the peace and tranquility in a Catholic church. I love the quiet prayer time and the sensation that it is just the Good News of me and Christ and the Eucharist. It brings me back to the basics. It is reverent and nourishes my soul, not my ego. Anything else is a hootenanny in my book!

[metmom]

What repentance does not involve doing penance (whether internally or externally)?

Repentance and doing penance are not the same thing at all.

Repenting is turning away from sin.

Doing penance is performing deeds to have sins absolved.

You can repent without doing penance. Simply not engaging in the sin again shows repentance.

You can do penance without having repented of the sin even though you feel bad about it.

[bkaycee]

The trinity was implicit in Scripture. The Marian doctrines and other novelties are derived out of whole cloth, many times from heretical documents.

[metmom]

Sola Scriptura is there every time Yeshua says “it is written.”

Exactly.

Every time He was challenged, He used it.

And during His temptation in the wilderness.

The sword of the Spirit is the word of God, quick and powerful even to the dividing of the soul and spirit.

[metmom]

The Eucharist is not cannibalism.

What? Jesus wasn't human?

You're not eating His flesh and blood after all?

[CynicalBear]

>>The Trinity, as we know it today, was unknown for years after the resurrection,<<

How preposterous. It was well known and understood from Jesus teaching. Even the apostles called Him God. He said He was the “I am”, and it was His Holy Spirit that was sent as councilor which was clearly understood by the apostles and all they taught.

[metmom]

Yes, I am because that bedroom IS his residence.

What? It stands alone? Opens right to the outside?

Where does he eat? Go to the bathroom? Shower?

Is his bedroom not located in THIS building?

[CynicalBear]

>>They lost their way a couple hundred years after Constantine married the church to the state.<<

I would contend there was no Roman Catholic Church or any such entity other than the universal “church” assembly of God until that time. It was then that the so called pope gained his authority and incorporated many of the pagan practices and beliefs. Simon Magus the sorcerer was a great influence in starting the RCC as well.

[CynicalBear]

>>But, Scripture does not ever say outright, Jesus is God.<<

My word Jvette? You have been shown where scripture clearly calls Jesus God. Here’s just one.

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

That is calling Jesus God.

[CynicalBear]

Those of us who have been “set free” will never totally understand the blindness of those who have chosen to follow a cult rather than the one true God. It would be like trying to understand how blind our leaders in this country are today.

[xzins]

I’m not happy with the splintering of Christianity into a multitude of flavors and types.

I really don’t think it’s the biblical ideal, although the 7 Churches of Revelation hint at it.

It’s sad. Real Unity as meant by Jesus, in Spirit and in Truth, speaks to me.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"...we cast ourselves into your arms..."

I may get to more of this tomorrow. My preliminary comment: We Catholics see Mary, and not only Mary but the whole Church --- all Christians taken collectively as the Body of Christ, and each one of us in particular --- as sharing in the great works of Christ.

Yes, we take these words of His very much to heart:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

You do His work. He said so. So do I. So does Mary.

So as a preliminary expansion of this subject, let's look at all those actions, attributes, and works, and see how they can apply to us, His Body, we who share His work (as He said above), and His cross, and His crown --- and see if that doesn't apply to all of us.

Tagline to you, Cynical Bear --- and Good Night.

[metmom]

Could be why there's still a Planned Parenthood office in my very neighborhood, and Obama's still in the White House. And I kid you not.

And I could not agree more.

Fasting is a lost practice.

[bkaycee]

I would contend there was no Roman Catholic Church or any such entity other than the universal “church” assembly of God until that time. It was then that the so called pope gained his authority and incorporated many of the pagan practices and beliefs. Simon Magus the sorcerer was a great influence in starting the RCC as well.

Certainly, there was no universal Papacy until 7 or 8 hundred years after Christ.

Many off the novel doctrines are said to have been adopted from lay grass roots, not from the Magesterium?? huh?

Like the Assumption of Mary, 400 years after the resurrection, which originated from a heretical document, condemned by a Pope.

[NYer]

Is his bedroom not located in THIS building?

Sorry, metmom, but you have the wrong building.

The Domus Sanctæ Marthæ (Latin for Saint Martha's House) is a building completed in 1996 adjacent to St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City. Built during the reign of Pope John Paul II, it functions as a guest house for clergy having business with the Holy See, and as the hotel residence of the members of the College of Cardinals when they are participating in a papal conclave to elect a new pope. Pope Francis made it his home on being elected in 2013.

The building replaced the St. Martha Hospice built in 1891 during a cholera epidemic for Pope Leo XIII that was dedicated to the sick in neighborhoods around the Vatican. During World War II the earlier structure was used by refugees, Jews, and ambassadors from countries that had broken diplomatic relations with Italy.

Francis’ alarm clock goes off at 4:45 every morning in room 201 in St. Martha’s House, when everything is still pitch black. The first few hours of Francis’ day are dedicated to prayer and meditation on the Readings.

Here is the Chapel

Here is the Dining Room