MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

[NYer]

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
6. “The music is better.”
7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people

[CynicalBear]

>> That Whore will be VERY badly behaved, VERY sold out to evil; whatever the character of the Roman institution it at least still has a very stellar take on life issues,<<

Let’s take a look at that point of view. Here’s what God said.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Now think for a minute. God’s people are obviously in that organization. Would God’s people be in an organization that was “VERY” badly behaved and “VERY” sold out to evil or would they have been fooled into thinking it was the true “church”?

Then there is the rest of scripture to consider. God never said a totally pagan society was “whoring around” with other religions and gods. He always said that about His people who were worshiping other god’s or incorporating paganism in the worship of Him.

I don’t believe your characterization of the whore to be very badly behaved and very sold out to evil stands up when viewed in the context of scripture. The “whore” has to be an organization that puts itself out as Christian but whores around with other gods or incorporates paganism in it’s practices which is what the RCC does.

[Iscool]

True enough they sometimes do. I still believe in lighting candles.

So do I...When a room is dark and the electricity has gone out... :)

[Mad Dawg]

Both good points.

Boring personal testimony time:

My “conversion experience” was ALL about unmerited grace (redundancy alert!) and my, ahem, “walk,” since then has been a hear-and-mind led exploration/experience in line with that. For the years I had my “radio show” (years which spanned my “coming into full communion” 12/26/94, the rhetorical task I set myself was to argue starting with something that had arisen from my prayer/study of the Scripture passages for that week and ending — after a reasonable development — with “God loves you.”

I THINK our view (to use your word) is often unknown to us. Or to say it another way, one way I think of the life in Christ is to come to believe what you believe. We find there are little pockets of infection which have not yet been opened to the light.

In fact, when I go to confession I tend to view preparation as at least partially an exploration: “How have I denied or turned my back on the light this past month?”

I do think that in assessing the medieval Xtians we need to be careful not to err in the manner of those who presume to despise Washington because he had slaves. We, corporately and individually, are always uncovering (or having uncovered for us) new aspects and consequences of the Gospel.

We DO believe in a God who forgives without great folderol, requiring simple repentance (stopping the sin and acknowledging the need for help, which is an essential before the Lord)

Always providing that while we may firmly intend to stop some sin, we know ourselves to be yet so sufficiently divided that we may succumb -- even probably will succumb -- again, "and that right early." :-(

I think Ps. 130 applies:
There is forgiveness with you, therefore you shall be feared/revered.
I go to confession because I am confident I am forgiven and will be forgiven. Gods forgiveness discloses a goodness which makes my sins seem truly vile while it washes them away. (As a friend of mine said to me after she made her first confession: THAT is the best weight loss program EVER!) The sacramental enactment of that forgiveness is not merely a sort of financial transaction but a new witness and experience of the Gospel. The guy I usually go to always ends with him saying, "Gives thanks to the LORD for he is good," and I respond, "for his mercy endures forever."

Among the money-changers in OUR particular part of the temple courtyard are those who reckon up sacraments and penances like book-keepers. We can only pray that one day, at the site of the Messiah bearing a scourge, they lift up their eyes from their columns of figures and see the love-light in his eyes.

[CynicalBear]

>>Words mean things "Mother of my Lord" is the same as saying "Mother of God"<<

Oh really? The word used in that verse is kurios.

http://biblesuite.com/strongs/greek/2962.htm
kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.

The same word is used here.

Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

And here.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

And here.

John 13:16 Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.

Never was it translated “God” yet you say it means God?

[CynicalBear]

>>So you're saying God the Father had a mother, eh?<<

Not only that but He had to fill Himself with the Holy Spirit also.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

If that doesn’t help you understand that Jesus was fully and separately a human there are other verses to back that up. While there is no way for us humans to fully comprehend the true nature of Christ and the relationship of His two entities we can be assured that God did not have to give the Spirit to Himself.

[metmom]

you have to be kidding....you would ssuggest for one moment that Satan does not know that Jesus Christ is God.....his creator, savior of mankind from his temptations...please

No, I'm not kidding.

Chapter and verse for your ORIGINAL statement here...Just express a belief that Jesus is the Lord and Savior (Satan does that) and all your obligations are superceded by salvation through grace alone.......O.K.

You stated that Satan had a BELIEF that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

Now in this post, you've changed the wording to claiming that you said that Satan KNOWS that Jesus is Lord and Savior. Not the same thing at all.

Chapter and verse to support your original comment.

[metmom]

mm:I could do that on a golf course, no sense wasting time at Mass any longer. I did it at work. I have a friend who did it at home, alone in his living room.

tc: good luck with that

He's a tremendous Christian man. Why wouldn't it work?

Do you think God can only be found within the walls of your church? That HE won't answer a heart that cries out to Him no matter where it happens?

[metmom]

Once again a statement with supporting documentation. What’s up with that?

SOP.

We have to back up everything we state and they go on just their say so because it's the Catholic church adn everyone just *knows* that the Catholic church is always right.

Right?

[CynicalBear]

>>Well then show like favor by being as kind as God was kind to us. Kindness doesn’t excuse, but it has great patience and tact.<<

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30)

2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Remember the words of our Lord and Savior “I will spue thee out of my mouth.”. The time for “ tact” and trying to be PC is about over.

[metmom]

Some of the verses people have used to support the whore of Babylon being the Catholic church, are these.

Revelation 17:9-10 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

Seven Hills of Rome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_hills_of_Rome

[NormsRevenge]

‘Tact’ my arse,, didn’t Jesus ‘toss’ physically the money changers and ‘favour sellers’ from the Temple? Or sumthin’ like that?

[CynicalBear]

>>You witness your way which I still think is carnally energized. I will witness what I believe is God’s way and divinely energized. Let’s compare results.<<

Yep! No puffed up there. No sireee. I am sure you are glad you are not like the publican.

>>you don’t know what counterfeiting is.<<

Really? You can read his mind and know what he doesn’t know? Seems to me you are getting a little personal there dude.

[metmom]

‘Tact’ my arse,, didn’t Jesus ‘toss’ physically the money changers and ‘favour sellers’ from the Temple? Or sumthin’ like that?

More than that. When He saw the goings on, He went and made a whip of cords.

Sounds pretty premeditated to me. It's not like He just happened to have one in His pocket, or saw one laying on the ground.

I can see it now. He and His disciples are heading to the Temple. Jesus sees what's going on and is INCENSED. You can see it in His eyes.

The disciples look at each other, thinking *Oh-oh. He's MAD. You ever see Him look like that before? What's He going to do now?*

Meanwhile, He stalks back to His carpenter shop and MAKES a whip of cords, fashioning the handle, nailing the whip to it. Testing it our and striding back to the Temple.

I'd be pretty sure the disciples were all standing together in a knot wondering just what He was going to do with that whip and He brings it our and, well you know the rest of the story.....

Sometimes it's fun to really think through what might have transpired in some of these accounts we are so familiar with.

Just like the one where they broke through the roof. Not a quiet or clean proposition. Plaster and wood ships everywhere. Jesus trying to teach over the hammering and debris falling.

I can just picture Him looking up at the ceiling once in a while smiling.....

[nutmeg]

The only megachurch service I ever attended was essentially a rock concert followed by a motivational speech. I know I can’t judge all megachurches by that one but it definitely turned me off to the whole concept.

Same here. And the one I went to had scantily-clad 5 and 6 year old girls twirling through the aisles in ballerina costumes. Bizarre...

[CynicalBear]

>>‘Tact’ my arse,, didn’t Jesus ‘toss’ physically the money changers and ‘favour sellers’ from the Temple?<<

Yep, and the time is fast approaching that those who think the Lord is all nicey, nicey to those who don’t listen to Him are going to be in for a rude awakening and some horrific times.

[CynicalBear]

LOL Sometimes the perspective I hear just defies real life. Like you said, when honestly applying it and imagining the circumstances does bring a smile to ones face. Other times you just shudder to think what wrath God can really dole out. There are many today who are going to rue the day when they didn’t listen to what God really said. The wrath to come is unprecedented.

[metmom]

There won’t be much mocking about salvation by grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2) then.

They’ll be wishing they had done it when it was so easy.

[boatbums]

Who? What? How? If?If?Don't you think? Perhaps?, Wouldn't?

I lot of questions, yet you only ask them and make assumptions based on what you may or may not know, very little in the way of documentation that disproves the contentions offered in the linked article. Does 500 languages sound like too many? Did you know there are now nearly 7000 known languages in the world? Is it out of the possibility that many of those people who heard the gospel preached in their OWN tongue that first Pentecost day also went back and wrote what they had heard? Is it also out of the realm of possibility that these people started assemblies of believers in their own lands and received the writings of the Apostles and their disciples and translated those, too?

It IS undeniable that the Roman Catholic Church diminished the authority of Scripture and forbid the laity to read the Scriptures IN their vernacular and it is also undeniable that the Latin Vulgate that WAS the only permitted one, was full of its own errors and Roman Catholic biases. God, however, had other plans and it was HIM who preserved His word.

[verga]

You are certainly free to agree or disagree.

[verga]

TC you would be wise to listen to metmom. She knows everything there is to know about living with out the modern conveniences of home computers. having to fight for your daily survival hunting and killing your food, harvesting your grain to make flour, making your own clothes, etc... Why everyone had Masters degrees and most had Doctorates. /SARC