MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

So dead faith is OK with Jesus? That’s good to know.

>>Are you now as you will be in Heaven?<<

Spiritually concerned the answer would be yes.

>>Will you be perfected?<<

Our bodies will be.

So you agree? We can never know anything other than the bare essentials and it doesn’t matter.

No, most things can be known, but many things take diligent study to know.

The things of salvation, The Good News of the Gospel is easy to understand.

That is how the Early church came to understand the scriptures by study.

God gave them the Holy Spirit to help illuminate their minds, but they studied the scriptures diligently to get there.

Even so, like today, there was not total unanimity on all issues. The Roman church has not solved that problem even amoung its own.

Are you now as you will be in Heaven?<<

Spiritually concerned the answer would be yes.

>>Will you be perfected?<<

Our bodies will be.

Interesting. Is your spirit perfected? Was it perfected when you got "saved" or was it always perfect and just clouded by "the flesh"?

Is your body the only thing that requires perfecting?

Are you a body with a spirit, a spirit with a body or some combination of the two?

We don’t vote, so the question of unanimity is irrelevant. There is a teaching. It is defined. It is in a book called the Catechism.

Yeah, I didn’t think you would dare go there. So you want to change the subject ey? Well, let’s go there then.

Jesus existed as God before His human birth.

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58)

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Now, we have clear evidence that Jesus was from eternity. He is the “I am” who has no beginning and no end. Jesus has been God from eternity. He only got His humanity from Mary.

For Mary to be the “mother of God” she would have had to preced Him in eternity which is an impossibility.

Would you say that it was written? Was it preserved?

In Revelation 5:8, John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

It's the 24 elders who are holding the golden bowls. But still doesn't mean they were prayer prayed to them.

Jesus actually demonstrated this for us on Mt. Tabor when He communicated with Moses and Elijah. What do you think they were, dead?

Are you saying Jesus was PRAYING to them?

He did not pray to them. He was talking with them about His departure.

When Peter made an attempt to honor them, the Father threw himself on that like a wet blanket and basically told him to shut up and listen to Jesus.

Nobody knows exactly what the saints in heaven are doing. Nobody even knows who the saints in heaven ARE. There are some that we can be reasonably certain are there, Stephen, for example, and the apostles.

Nobody has been to heaven to verify it though and honestly, if someone claimed to have been there and come back with a report, I would be exceedingly skeptical about it, to say the least.

If we go by Jesus example and teaching, we pray to the Father only, who is promised to hear and answer our prayers Himself. That's good enough for me. Sometimes I will ask for others to agree with me in prayer for something, but that is not praying to them.

The Hebrews 11 chapter, the hall of fame of faith, is followed by Hebrews 12 and while the chapter and verse notations are useful, they do have the drawback of unnaturally breaking up the flow of though for one.

But Hebrews 12, following on the thought of Hebrews 11 says this.....

Hebrews 12:1-3 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

It's all about Jesus......

>> The only way to know that you are "saved" is to walk the walk.<<

Now why would you say things that contradict scripture?

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

Notice that Most assuredly? Those are the words of the Holy Spirit as written by John. Do you doubt what the Holy Spirit said?

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Notice that once for all and perfected for ever. Perfected for ever is somehow not perfected forever in your world? Once again, why do you doubt what the Holy Spirit says?

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

So we are washed, sanctified, justified, and perfected forever by the Spirit of our God. Did you notice that it didn’t mention that we are any of those things of ourselves or what we do?

Doubting what the Holy Spirit says is rather a serious offense.

>>ALL the saved have the Spirit of God in them and when you do you KNOW it.<<

Amen, Amen, and Amen!

And if Catholics believe that only the leadership has the Holy Spirit and can be taught by Him then as scripture says “Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.” That would cause me great concern if I were of the Catholic belief.

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

>>I am trying to figure out if you believe God is working in you to perfect you.<<

That’s a done deal SoothingDave.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. You really should stop doubting the Holy Spirit as He spoke through the writers of scripture.

>>So how do you know that you are "saved"?<<

By taking the Holy Spirit at His word.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

It’s all about the Body of Christ :o)

LOL Is he/she Catholic?

You are redefining the term “mother of God.”

That is fine, if you want to divorce yourself from its historical use and introduce confusion.

What would you say if i told you that Catholics (and others who use the term) are not asserting that Mary pre-existed God?

Do you know what we mean by the term? Or are you content to reject it without knowing?

"...would strongly agree that they would not appreciate the equivalent of being called "stupid" and a "liar", all in the same post.

But I did not call you "stupid" or "a liar", although you accused me of that (being a liar) and myself being stupid or ignorant enough to need a lecture, from "catechism for beginners" and the like. I can easily enough find that sort of thing on my own.

In the note (private message) you called me a liar (while complaining I did the same to you). Now you drag that accusation here. What is up with that? Are there two sets of rules? One for me, another for you? Or is it more there wiggle room based on technicalities? Uh-huh. right. The technicalities and conditional exemptions are a two-way street also.

I told no lies. The RCC has in fact long taught "do penance" as in "acts of contrition", etc. And in past times, self-flagellation has been practiced, although I did not say that is was "taught". So -- no lies there. You falsely accused me, while telling me that "Satan was the father of lies" etc. I truly do resent the evident double -standard.

I did say another gave me an honest answer, while you were seeming to duck the issue (concerning what changed and what didn't as to the "species" of the bread and wine, during or after "transubstantiation") giving me instead reams of "instruction" which I did not ask for, nor either need. Since I was myself quoting from official RCC source --- why in the world would you think more of the same would answer the question --- which was NOT "what does the RCC teach" or say about it. Duh.

In that particular discussion, we were talking about the Greek words used for "body" in various New Testament texts. If you read those five posts, you should clearly know what all our points were as well

Yes, as I made mention of "body" in my own last reply to you, it should be obvious that I saw what it was about, without having to again be instructed or corrected --- rather than any questions answered.

In my own previous comment to you here, there was a question from me explicitly mentioning "body". That was opportunity for you to provide simple confirmation, to which you may have then given more narrow application from a wider discussion (instead of sending me back in a string of comments to sift it out for myself, then needing to guess about it, all while FR was acting up and not allowing me full access to threads. Only a few comments were appearing) but I got snooty sounding snark, run-around, mis-direction, "it's all my fault for asking" type of answer instead.

The rest of my own previous comment can be seen to revolve around application of the term "body". How was that context meant to apply, to that note of correction to metmom, that she missed a usage? Was there some deliberate act of ill-will or intent on her part? It came across to me that you were alluding that there was.

Unless there has been further commentary after this reply to which I send reply, you still don't state any point plainly, in regards to that one particular comment which you addressed to metmon. What I see now addressed to me, comes across as a bunch of self-justifying blather. I'm not interested in those portions.

Just what was the reason for pointing out metmon missed a usage? Was that a "gotcha" moment or something?

I believe that most Christian posters in this Religious Forum discussing our Christian faith and it's various viewpoints and beliefs, would strongly agree that they would not appreciate the equivalent of being called "stupid" and a "liar", all in the same post.

Again, all I said was that I did receive an honest answer from another. If it is then assumed Iwas calling anyone "a liar", well, that's not my doing. But my mention of another having supplied direct honest answer, was in comparison to the dodgy/lecturing combo I was getting from you in place of direct answer. As far as "stupid" I didn't say that or call you that either --- but if there was anything like an "equivalent", you yourself told me you were unqualified to enter into the discussion, mixing in at that point, mention of various Latin usages and the like, --- when my own comments were quoting from official Vatican source, English language version proceeding from Council of Trent, with all of this concerning the description of "transubstantiation".

All of which left me to consider, either --- the answers I received previous to the private message (which had a sentence or two buried within a plethora of commentary, your own and from another, the latter which touched upon the issue briefly) were a form of a dodge --- or you possibly didn't understand the question. In that lengthy private message, much as your previous comments on that thread, it was scarcely addressed at all (not at all by your own self, in your own words) though in the private note, touched upon briefly (before discussion of it in that text backed off like some self-scalded dog from mentioning it any further) in the large block of material you quoted from, having sent that my way.

Metmom seems to have understood what I was saying in the comment to which you here reply. She didn't seem to think I was far afield from "context". Because, I wasn't.

So spare me the sermons, along with the lectures 'from on high', which include around their margins clearly implied message of what a bad person I am (forms of accusation) given while complaining about being accused yourself, all while also giving me the "do unto others" sermon. It's just too much to take...

I urge you to re-read that freepmail, as it was not sent to you because of that issue, but plainly was feedback in reference to the tactics you used in your post to me in that thread.

Re-read that once again? It was more insulting to me in private, with less rational justification for being so than anything I sent to you in public. Would you care for me to go over in detail and show you what I mean? I already wrote a reply -- but where to send it? Back to you? I could post the whole "private message" pile on that other thread...would that make you happy? It would have been better to have sent it openly...but what? That couldn't have been done, because of the "personal" nature of it, including comparing me to devil himself? Is that it?

Yes, your private note there did concern itself much about my so-called tactics. Evils I was not in actuality fully guilty of (things were stretched to make the accusations fit) coupled with much self-justification on your own part for whatever you say and do, along with information containing *some* partial answer, presented to me in lecture/instructional format like I was some raw RCIA prospect. I am not one of those. I already know the Lord, and am not now requiring some additional hand-held introduction to Him. Instead, I was asking a question concerning how; due to changing understanding of word definition & usage, conditions can lead to ill-defined conceptual understandings of just what is being said to transpire in regards to transubstantiation.

That the question makes many uncomfortable, is not my problem -- or yours either really, since neither of us created or wrote the words to describe the transformational process.

You sent me long note concerning what I was doing wrong in my own reactions to what I saw as avoidance of the question, but all that too, revolving around, was connected to and had arisen from this particular issue -- of "the body".

There is much talk about it, but scarcely much of it, frankly to the point (when the going gets difficult). Everything else in the world seems spoken of instead, when the questioning becomes too specific, and the "control" of the language otherwise used in RCC description, is not simply meekly submitted to. Anything and everything but direct answer then is supplied... Like discussion of -- what a bad guy I am.

The Free Republic rules say that we can't carry over discussions from some old thread into a new thread, and I certainly won't.

However, I can make a more generalized statement to you here in this thread.

Huh? You brought up what you accused me of in the private note, TWICE in the same comment to which I am replying on this thread. I did not drag those precise elements here. You did. If in answer to my own mention of the note, then since select portions are now more fully here, should not I be allowed to address what you bring concerning it, here? Or, am I to now have my hands tied behind my back, while you bring out the same accusation twice over again? No, I get to discuss it too, just as you have. And while we are at it, just as you brought element from there which I did not, then doesn't that open the door for yet more of the same? Or is it here too, that two sets of "rules" must be applied?

If you only knew how far off the mark most of what you said to me (in that private note) was and is. Additionally, in a sense (slim as the rational may be) I am not dragging a discussion from "another thread" here, in that those comments were not made by you openly "on another thread", but instead, by "private message" which I would have addressed (and possibly dismembered publicly) if it had been made publicly.

As to issue you may have thought "cute" to there raise;
How many dead have you raised? How many has the pope raised (any pope)? Have you any idea of what is involved in that? Have you ever encountered the power & might that can not only do that work, but is intent upon it? I have. At a funeral home! Almost thirty years ago.

You told me --- what? From memory of that note; Go to a funeral home, try to raise the dead, then after failing, go back home and in humility and read the scripture passage which states clearly for us all, that my thoughts are not as God's thoughts, that His are high above my own? Do you think I do not know that passage...or have never considered it in the context in which you there put it? I am many long years ahead of you, in this regard, and eventually that power of Revival may yet visit me again, possibly arise from within me, for I do have the Spirit upon me, to preach the gospel to the poor. If so --- and Revival arises, then I do hope and intend upon not being as shy as I was before, for I was quite overwhelmed by the suddenness of the Spirit and what I perceived as it's potential, and not just a little frightened too, by the suddenness of the presence, the perceived business or intent of the Spirit in that tome and place, along with the raw power. I can not describe it, there are no words for it.

Taken suddenly by the awareness of the presence, and the seeming intent, I admit I immediately had slipped into "doubt" mode, thinking things like "she has had an autopsy! she's already been embalmed!" and..."she had been in serious pain for years previous to her death -- what if it just brings her back to that state?"
Additionally, since I was less than sure of what was going on then, than I have been better able to determine or at least make some educated guesses towards later (I'm still working on it--- looking for Him to show me, for I do know the human mind ain't never going to "figure out" God and His ways) I didn't consider myself at all qualified to be taking part in something so serious as raising someone back to life, in this realm, just because I sensed the presence (and very powerfully so -- no mistake here --- and certainly not just my imagination-- I'm not that powerful, or 'smart' either). So instead, while gazing upon her wizened visage, as she lay there in her casket during our church service for her there in the mortuary, with many from the church we were all members of gathering there for that reason, I put a finger to my lips as if to silently say to her "shssh. just let this be our secret". What a cowardly cop-out, huh? What would you have done, if discerning that the same Spirit which had been sensed previously, quite powerfully, the first time as "death and doom" for a man (who did die, just as I warned him of) sensed again as suddenly and as powerfully as the first encounter, all without any warning, entirely unexpectedly "sensed", but this time with opposite intent? I could barely wrap my mind around the first go-round. Then this second occurrence, going fully the other direction? All I knew at the time, is this was a powerful spiritual presence with a resolute determination which was frightening to me. I mean...who has contemporary to our own times, working knowledge and prior direct experience with such powers of Spirit? Though I was around twenty years old at the time, I had not been raised "in the church" so to speak, and had been baptized only a year or so previously. What to "do" with these powerful forces, how to respond? I am no expert --- but now, with having learned *some* other about the realm of Spirit, I do "have a clue", at least to what the Spirit when after that cause (Revival, possibly Resurrection) "feels" like. Do you?

Before she died, this woman had prophesied to me that I would pay for her funeral --- all by myself. At the time she said that --- it made no sense to me whatsoever, for reasons too numerous to fully cover here. But it did come to pass, almost twenty years after the fact, just as she had told me that God had shown her.

A month or two before she died, she pointed to me, picking me out from among a group of people, saying "you. God has revealed something about you to me. Come here I want totalk to you." Being as was such a noob,and I knew she really did know things of Spirit, I gulped, even dreading hearing about something "revealed" about myself.

I was nobody special to her. There were many other people there,soome who knew her quite well,and a few of them loving her very much. She was quite the character.

I don't think she even knew my name, nor had we spoken directly to one another but only briefly a few times, for previous to this she had been very ill for a year or so, and rarely left her room much due to the unrelenting pain she was experiencing. I was told that her autopsy showed her to have had gallstones the size of grapefruit. Ouch.

Otherwise, getting back to her prophesy, I was just one member out of more than a hundred members at the time (and one of the most junior and insignificant of members) of a ministry that she had much been part founder of, as co-founder of sorts, with her husband. Also, a minister whom they had ordained some years previously, was the one who baptized me, interestingly enough myself at that moment receiving baptism of the Holy Ghost also. I didn't quite expect that part, and was thinking that would likely come later, after I had done a more thorough housekeeping/repentance (and was able to stick to it, proving my own worthiness --- which of course is impossible to do).

Receiving the Holy Spirit at baptism is not the only way the Spirit can be bestowed upon a person of course, but it is one way. I have heard testimony of others that the same had occurred with themselves. But here I digress again...sorry.

Almost twenty years later, at the urging, or should I say by the revelation from God that he wanted that funeral bill paid, did that prophesy of Rachel's to me come true, though I had forgotten her having said it, with that not coming back to mind until some time (perhaps a week or a few? possibly a month) after I had paid the fees.

It came about like this; one morning upon awakening, but before I had opened my eyes, God came on real strong, showing me how he felt about it (for I was not given words) but instead was allowed to sense some significant anger He had about it, and that He wanted the bill payed. He did not order me to do it. But He did show me very clearly how He felt about...or perhaps I should say...He showed me what He wanted me to know about how He "felt" and thought about it? With Him, there is always more, and He does seem to reveal only that which He chooses to, to whom, when and where suits Himself. Your own mileage may vary. It could be more along the lines of "happy, happy, happy", and still be Him. With the corollary being also, that just because a thing is not "happy" or joyful, or lovingly hopeful soundingto our own understandings, does not mean that what was conveyed was not from Him. I add this for reason that each time I have shared the type of information which I just have --- someone always comes along and says to me something like "that can't be God. God is Love. That proves you don't know God at all" etc.

The heat of it, what He revealed to me, my own perceiving them to be as His thought and emotion too, was enough for me to expend something like three-fourths of all the money I had at the time, putting it into the funeral director's hand later that same day, cash money. Arising from bed, I knew what I was going to be doing that day, at least in part.

I owned but little else at the time. Some clothes. An old pick-up truck. A motorcycle (nothing fancy or pricey). A few tools. A few hunting rifles, only one of them worth more than about $200 (I might get $350 for that one, if I was lucky) No real estate. No savings account. No stocks or bonds. A sleeping bag and a tent. A few fishing poles and some large ice-chests. Odds and ends of junk in storage. I was grateful the bill was in 1981 pricing. If it had been 2001 pricing, I probably wouldn't have been able to manage it, even if I had sold everything I could...

I do not think it wise to do as you suggested in your private message for me to do... to go into a funeral home and "try" to raise the dead there... but will instead, if the Spirit comes again or rises to my discernment, even if just sensing as a wisp of a vapor, I do think I should sing out, pray pray pray even if needing be still standing in place, say something, agree with the intent even if very faint, and urge the Lord, even beg Him -- anything I have to say or do, and the dead will quite possibly come back to life, if the Spirit follows through on the [latent] intent which I was given ability to discern that day, these almost thirty years ago now.

Why me and not some other possible even arguably "more suitable" vessel? I have no single idea, but more like a grab-bag, and none of them because I'm just so darned "spectacular" or smart or deserving, or "super-duper spiritual" or any horse-feather self-image idea like that. Leaving this to be not because of my own self, but for His own reasons, all of them together only understandable by His own singular self, for we do not see the biggest picture such as He does, having within Himself knowledge of all things from the beginnings to the ends of them...

But it's not over.... I've already had a dead bird come back to life, right in my hands, as answer to prayer, not a prayer thought spoken or prayed at that precise moment, but a short time previously. The prayer was along lines of; "God...was what you gave me recently, in relation to and in regards to the power of Revival which I encountered at Rachel's casket-side?" (many years previous). The prayer was answered in detail.

I had prayed also "if this be so, then let me come upon a small animal freshly dead..." to see if this power of Revival was within or somehow available to myself, asking also for Him to blind my memory at that time of encountering said "small animal, or bird" for having prayed this prayer, so I wouldn't be consumed with doubt, or some form of performance anxiety, thinking what is more normally an impossibility be all reliant upon myself singularly, and for Him to use my own natural inclinations, moving upon me to approach and move or remove the animal..."and have it came back to life, in my hands." Well guess what? It happened. Having the thing suddenly start flapping it's wings was very startling. At first I thought--- it must have just been stunned. That can happen with birds.

This bird wasn't just laying peacefully in the road, but instead was wings askew in a small riotous heap, one wing thrust crookedly upwards, the rest of the bird a disorganized pile in the middle of the road. It had lain there for a perhaps a couple of minutes visible in my own eyesight, before I was near to it to pick it up. I could see that it hadn't been run over yet, and thus squashed, or I wouldn't have bothered getting out of the vehicle. As soon as I saw the thing, while yet blocks away as I drove nearer and it was able to be determined for a certainty what it was (and not just some rubbish, as from a distance I had considered possibility of, even as at first sight from blocks away) had arise within myself desire to move the poor thing out of the street. I had decided I would stop adjacent to where it lay, leaving my old truck parked in the travel lane of the street, and move the bird to the curb on the side of the street which was away from or opposite residential frontage. That side backed a commercial area, with there being a fence set back from the curb some 5 to 8 feet, leaving a dirt walking path on that side of the street. It was there I thought I would place the bird, to let ants and other insect desiccate the carcass a bit more gracefully than being turned into messy road-pizza near the middle of the street, right in front of somebody's house...

I had prayed also, right at the end of the prayer -- "and let there be a witness!". Well, there was one. That detail too (and a bit more than spoken of here) was answered.

I had stopped near an intersection to move the bird. The "witness" was across the intersecting cross-street. Piney Way, I think it was. I was on Pacific Street. Morro Bay, California, having driven up from Main Street.

I had scooped the bird up with both hands, having also somewhat dreaded the task, being as birds can have nasty mites and/or carry disease--- I otherwise make it a practice to not touch them.

Having taken only a few steps from near the middle of the road, and still in the Westbound lane of the road, the bird suddenly sprang to life and began energetically flapping it's wings, trying to get away. For a brief period, it seemed stuck to my hands. Spreading my fingers (so as to not be unwittingly pinching feathers or a bird foot between them without noticing I was doing so, thus keeping the bird trapped even as I was wanting very much to be rid of it, as it's wings were brushing my arms and face too in all the flapping struggle) I thrust my hands upwards in attempt to toss it into the air. I had to repeat that action several times before it finally got free and flew away.

Before I had even stopped my old rusty pickup (in order to remove the bird to the side of the road) I had noticed a man whom I took to be a resident of the property on which he was standing (one the other side of the intersection) for I had seen him there at times previous. He was fooling around in the yard there near a lightly built, longitudinal wooden rail fence. I took little note of him, being as on approach from a few blocks away I was concerned more about the possibility of other traffic coming along and complicating the desired removal of the bird from the street. The truck lacked a functioning parking brake, and the location was on an incline. I would need stop the motor then let out the clutch with the truck in gear, get out, do what was needed, then get back in, go through the motions of restarting, all of which could take enough time to leave me blocking the road and obstructing traffic, both with my truck (which for whatever reason I was hesitant to pull towards the curb, part of it being time consideration, the other being there was a car already parked somewhere along there which would have made it where I would need pull to the side and ahead, then back up to park, and that I didn't want to disturb residents there with parking maneuvers being as those houses along that portion of the block had scant set-back from the street too) and my own body when I would be standing in the other lane, crossing back and forth, in effect briefly blocking all travelhad any vehicle gone up or down the street, or had turned from Piney Way or the next block to the West, which is Monterey St, if memory serves.

With those things in mind kind of all at once, I took little further notice of the man there, until after the bird had gotten free and flown from my hands, he said in an accusatory tone, "I saw that!".

Having been first very suddenly surprised by the bird coming to life as it were, and having had some momentary trouble getting it out of my hands, I was startled all over again by the man's words, but more for reason of his tone of voice. Thinking myself "accused", even feeling like I had done something wrong, I replied "it must have just been stunned". He said, again in a harsh tone, "that bird was dead! I know it was dead!"

Right then it hit me. I remembered the prayer in that instant. And he was my witness! So not so shy this time, or feeling at all guilty I had done something wrong, in similar "beyond being certain" tone and manner he had been speaking toward me, I then said forcefully to him "You are my witness". His reaction made me sort-of laugh, for he began to immediately back away, even shrink away, shaking his head "no" to the very thing he had just a few seconds previous had been speaking so harshly of with a matter-of-fact assurance that didn't just border on arrogance, but had owned it.

So do you still think it wise (as you seemingly did in your private message) to tell me I should go to a funeral home, try to raise the dead by my own power, then after failing to get'R done, crawl off home to find humiliation in scripture? No thanks, deary. For the first portion of that process, I'd rather avoid tempting God like that. For the latter, uh, well duh, like they say... but you know what? Given the history of what He has shown me in the spiritual realm, He possibly would cut me a bit of slack if I tried experimenting (with the former). How about you? Would he do the same for you, if you tried to raise the dead under your own steam, but failed?

What's that? What am I hearing...someone may be saying they wouldn't attempt it? BUT you proscribed it for me to try to do. Well alrighty then...

When you have yourself done the work (raised the dead) --- then come and tell me all about it. I'd love to hear of it. Perhaps it will happen for you some day. Don't count Him out. He's in the Revival business, in a way...He could use even you, right? I do also wonder, if we do not see more of that sort of thing, even the miraculous, for as soon as such occurs, what does human nature lead mankind to do but try to imitate or force a re-occurrence by way of "doctrine" & posturing on the one hand, while gilding the lily so to speak, on the other? Or to mistake God's grace and Goodness towards us as ratification of our own typically limited if not distorted perceptions of Him? It is possible much for these sort of reasons He does appear to hide His own hand as it were, masking His own interventions. It is for our own good (it seems to me) that He does so.

I do wonder if what was once pressed into me by God, (yet another portion of my own testimony) now years later due to my own sins and failures, have now been given over to another, since I'm presently such a failure. Even if the gift (whatever it was I received by His hand) not having been taken away from myself (due to my own failings and outright sins), I've long been wondering if my own failure to get what has been gifted to me, "into gear" or operation, so to speak, be something I may have to give answer for, as in a "why didn't you keep yourself holy enough while waiting for the time?" sort of responsibility. Or along lines of "why did you not more carefully protect and nurture that which was so powerfully thrust within yourself, even by the hand of God, for you did sense and "feel" as it were, your own soul crease or fold inwardly at that moment, sensing also God the Father on the other side of what was being thrust upon you, with it being Him who was doing the pushing" ...of whatever that was which was so suddenly without prior warning pressed into me, even into my 'soul'.

I describe that occurrence like that (in part, for there are other aspects which can be spoken of too)...for it seems to me upon later reflection, that although I have previously spoken "I was touched by the hand of God" on that day, the contact was possibly only that which was pressed into me (right into the center of my chest, is where I sensed it) with it being Him doing the pushing. Not that I am a vending machine or something, but one can drop or push a coin into such a machine without necessarily coming into bodily contact with the machine itself. Which leaves it possible He didn't exactly touch me. It was concerning that gifting I;m now talking about, which I had prayed---"does this have something to do with that power of revival, the power which I was allowed to sense was the power to raise the dead back to life, for that was the intent I encountered at Rachel's casket", although I did not step up and try to myself somehow assist or help, leaving no one that I know of raised from dead that day.

Still, there was an intent of Revival. Should I be stood at judgement for not having participated in the reviving of the dead back to life that day? That would make about as much sense as expecting a third grader to be able jump in the cab of a tractor trailer and "float" the shifts into and out of gears without grinding and banging them. Those gear boxes are not synchronized. Pushing in the clutch, actually takes some skill to be done properly and effectively in those rigs. Doing it wrong, just makes things worse, in that it makes it impossible to get it into gear. So like a third grader, though I sensed powerful movement...I just stood there, doing nothing.

If you had had these things (and much more) occur to your own self, you just might have been doing some wondering along the same lines as I have...

Do you have anything like that hanging over your head? I do. But you tell me I should go and review how His thoughts are higher than my own? Of course His are higher, powerful too. My own in comparison? bleech, not so shiny, kind-of grayish murky-like, loosely formed and difficult to keep tabs on. Not so wonderful. If a thought comes to my own head, it is immediately subject to being regarded with some internal suspicion, for I trust no man if I can avoid doing so --INCLUDING my own self! Aye-yi-yi...if you had any real idea of just who I am, and how difficult it can be to be me (internally) then you might leave off the incessant schoolmarm act, and stop trying to teach me all about stuff I already know some things about directly, by personal experience. But I'm not the only one who knows a thing or two, and is self critical, and harshly judgmental towards one's own self at the same time. That sort of thing, He did come to deliver us from I do believe, leading us to paths of greater peace, resting and refreshing from time to time, wonderfully and gently by His Spirit. We don't need to be "miracle workers". He has that part well taken care of.

What was that which Peter spoke? Silver and Gold have I not. But what I have I give to you...right? So somehow, someday, I must give it, even that which I have been myself given. Meanwhile, just abide until He returns, not neglecting consideration that He indeed shall.

Returning back to my own inward questioning concerning the powerful & miraculous things of the Lord I have been given grace to know of, to have confirmed within as being real, I do wonder if I have dawdled far too much, have made too many mistakes in the interim, and have not worked enough towards my own greater sanctification and preparation --- thus this great and powerful gift, this singular coin has become all but buried too deeply, with my own self having in effect hidden it, with the result being that what I had come to believe concerning my self having been at one time at least, desired to be used by God in conjunction with His own powers of Revival, to have been passed to another for reason of my own lack of providing Him in return enough positive result for His own investment. Yet, your own (in that private massage where you chewed me up) by bringing up the subject of Reviving the dead, does give me some hope, that there may yet be time enough for myself to see the dead come back to life.

I should thank you for that, huh?

It’s a done deal? You are sanctified, made perfect?

You have no impure thoughts, no weakness to temptation? You neve get prideful or angry or snippy?

I am a work in progress. I would never claim that my sanctification was done.

>> In Revelation 5:8, John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."<<

Let’s look at that verse in Revelation.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Now, you make the statement that they are “offering” them to God. Revelation 5:8 doesn’t say that. They simply hold the vials of incense. Why add to the words of scripture when we are emphatically told not to. The caution in Revelation especially is rather odious.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Unless you are deceiving yourself, which you said was possible earlier. Even if we think we have faith and we have fruits to show it, we still might be one of the damned.

Why the Megachurch?

What About the Eucharist?

The Problem