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To: stisidore

“They love you, they love me, and they, being one in and with Christ, will pray for anyone who asks.”

Well, that is your assumption. We have no real evidence that those who may be in Heaven, besides God, can even hear our prayers, much less any instruction from God that it is now allowed for us to try to communicate with those who have passed on. On the contrary, there are explicit prohibitions against trying to commune with spirits in the Bible, so those of us who treat the Bible as a higher authority like to err on the side of caution. As others have noted, we have no need to pray to anyone but Christ, so we lose nothing by being cautious in this regard.


6 posted on 08/18/2013 10:40:22 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Please forgive my tardy reply. I’m only online at certain times because of work.

I don’t think I will be able to overcome your objections, but I would like to pass along a couple of stories that don’t jibe with the evangelical line (as I understand it.)

The first is from the Old Testament, and it is interesting in that the miracle occurred WITHOUT any prayer by ANYONE. No request was made to God, but rather IMHO, it shows the power of a righteous man, even when dead and in the grave.

Now, I’m sure your Evang hackles have been raised. Before I get to the precise story, keep in mind that God works in His own ways, and Christ had to inform the Pharisees of such. Recall that they were telling Him, in effect, ‘you can’t heal like this, like that, on this day, you must have a demon to cast out demons,’ etc.

This story establishes a precedent on the ways of God, ways which are not OUR ways, or even ways we want to, at times, accept.

It comes from 2 Kings 13:20-21—

…20 Elisha died, and they buried him. Now the bands of the Moabites would invade the land in the spring of the year. 21 As they were burying a man, behold, they saw a marauding band; and they cast the man into the grave of Elisha. And when the man touched the bones of Elisha he revived and stood up on his feet.

My premise is that the bones of a righteous man or woman have the ability to heal. This shows that God wills it so. This story provides that proof.

There is also a story from the New Testament that is in line with Catholic practice, (and I believe the Orthodox as well), which shows the power of a servant of God to bless objects which would heal people.

But first, do you not recall the story of the woman with the hemorrhage who only but touched Christ’s garment and was healed?

Mark 5:24-29
A large crowd followed and pressed around him. 25 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. 26 She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. 27 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28 because she thought, “If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.” 29 Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.

Now I ask you to remember that Christ said the HIS FOLLOWERS WOULD DO GREATER ACTS THAN HE!

John 14:12

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.”

Acts 19:11-12
11 God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

And this, my friend, is the basis for some of those Catholic Christian “greater works” (the words of Christ).

When you read the lives of the Saints that the Church cherishes even from antiquity, know that great labor has been spent on verifying the truthfulness of these occurrences.

And ask yourself, how often, if at all, have these greater works than Christ been done in your church?

If Christ wants and wills these things to be done in His name, and they have been done, then I submit that YES, something IS being lost in not using the gifts provided. We are not to bury His gifts to us under a stone, nor to hide our lamps under a bushel basket.


7 posted on 09/02/2013 3:22:59 PM PDT by stisidore (MM, let's see here)
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