Augmentation of abilities after death, in a state of grace? Ample examples? From where? The scriptures you cite don't do what you seem to be claiming, for none of them are any sort of example of "abilities after death". If memory serves...this isn't the first time you have cited those same scriptures, trying to use them in similar ways -- to which another then went through them, each in turn, going into detail of why they don't "work". Yet here they come again...
In the future...when claiming the fantastical--- bring the actual passages you speak of. I do hate wild goose chases...shoot...even the portion of MartPol which you cite, says nothing much about "veneration of relics". That sort of thing is a later "read between the lines" in effort to justify superstitious regard of objects --- which is said to not be worship, but only "veneration".
Otherwise...it is as "logical" for a "Protestant" (whatever those are) to object to praying to anyone other than the Father in Heaven --- for Christianity is much reliant upon what was revealed to the Hebrews. Or else God only gave them partial truths...was in effect only stringing them along, or playing games.
Praying to those whom have passed on hearkens back to pagan ancestor worship with a bit of Greco-Roman "hero" worship (they now be as gods) mixed in for "godly" measure.
Ancestor worship was widely practiced in Ur, which Abram was instructed to leave. Gilgamesh and others...having once lived and been kings or men of renown, once passed on, were then elevated to status of city-state "protector" --- and prayed to. Those minor gods, the "protectors", none of them singular God, were at times adopted by other city/state provinces. It's good to have more than one protector?...or to have differing kinds, sort of like modern physicians become specialists?
Looking around the world, of those places not in some way influenced by Hebrew religious thought (even if it be mainly by way of Christians) just WHERE is it which developed an actual monothesism?
In comparison;
Catholics have saints of this or that... lost things... hopeless causes...travel...what else? Pray to...I dunno, pick one -- St. Anthony --- and what will happen? Will two front teeth show up come Santa Claus Season?
Is God's arm foreshortened to such an extent he must now rely upon others to "give good gifts" to those persons He adopts as now His own children?
A rich daddy, eh? But too busy for the kids, so he has servants, hirelings, and "old family friends" do the fathering? ...And here I thought God was a Jealous God. He tells us that He is.
But now...we are directed to pray to "saints"? Even if it be said "not instead of, but also, and in addition to" praying towards the One true God --- it is still wrong. To the extent your "church" endorses the practice, your "church" is wrong. Just ask the Jews. I'll stand with them in this, before I'll stand with you, and do so without denying Christ on iota for having done so. My conscience in this is perfectly clear, perfectly at peace
Men and their imaginations, in their wishful thinking, have been mixing in extraneous worldly garbage into Catholicism for centuries. Which is a crying shame... for much else is or can be quite correct.
Why not just do as Christ directed? He did not direct anyone to pray even to his own person, but instead... to pray to the Father in his name. In the realm of prayer, why do anything else? Please...don't reply to me at all concerning the ideas you are trying to push, unless you answer that question.
Christ is attributed to have directly instructed us to pray to the Father, in his name. Nowhere in the NT do the Apostles (or Christ, either) instruct anyone to pray to anyone other than the Creator.
The newadvent link to MartPol doesn't do much. Besides... you seemed to have fully ducked the questions concerning it. Which version is newadvent relying upon? Not all versions are the same. There are some fundamental questions as to the historicity of the piece, too.
And --- you have not much said what you are trying to prove with it ---save for that which I have already shown to have been your own illogical opinion, which you seem to have been saying was based upon the part which you cited.
You have gone from; First--- the Jews started this opposition to praying to saints (which what you cited did not show, for the alleged objections of some Jews at that time concerning The "Jews" spoken of were along the lines of them thinking Christians might just go ahead and make another "Christ" out of the martyred Polycarp. In comparison --- no one had "bones" of Christ to "venerate". No clothes, no nothing (though some *stuff* showed up centuries later, but not bones)
Your reasoning comes across as;
Protestant can't speak against "polytheism" because Roman Catholics all but entirely indulge themselves in it. It could be said that RC'ers (some of them, anyway) DO in fact practice a form of polytheism, by claiming there are god-like powers and attributes spread around to those other than the Creator, with just some word-play and "special" definitions holding them back (if at all) from having portrayed these once living humans as having now joined the godhead. It's like there is God...and a bunch of junior rank gods. Just because in the RCC pantheon the "juniors" need be lesser than the One (big?) God, does not stop them from (according to RC theology) acting with god-like powers. Some RC'ers go as far to say Christ will not say "no" to Mary --- so plead with Mary, convince her how pious one is, or how much in need-- then she'll TELL Jesus what to tell the Father? ok -- this last part is not exactly spelled out in "official" teachings word-for-word as just described -- but human nature doubtlessly takes it that direction, it cannot be denied.
You correctly mentioned to me (in 59) that Jews object to veneration of saints from a different angle. I then, in 91, pointed out that the Jewish objection is logical for a Jew, who does not believe in divinity of Jesus nor in sanctification of Jesus's disciples. The Protestant objection is illogical because it is counterscriptural, and I referred you to the relevant scriptures that point to the reality of sanctification.
bring the actual passages you speak of
But of course. I usually assume people have a Bible handy, but here it is.
I am come that they may have life, and may have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)This shows that a life of a saint is abundant compared to unbeliever; "that they may have" indicates that it is the life not yet given them rather the natural life they already have. This alone should destroy the Protestant superstition that saints are somehow dead, cannot respond to prayers, etc.
in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven.(Matthew 22:30)
This shows that the saint is like an angel. But what is an angel? - A messenger of God. Saints therefore can and do fulfill requests from God and interact with us like angels do.
Know you not that we shall judge angels? (1 Corinthians 6:3)
This shows that the state of a saint is higher than an angel; while the saint possesses the faculties of an angel, his are even greater.
We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known (1 Corinthians 13:12)
This shows that the intellectual ability of a saint exceeds our abilities before death.
you seemed to have fully ducked the questions concerning it. Which version is newadvent relying upon?
I gave you the link, and this is what is at the bottom of that page:
Translated by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson. From Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1. Edited by Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1885.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight. .
How is it "ducking the question"?
On the substance of the veneration of relics in The Martyrdom of Polycarp, yeah, sure it is there: St. Polycarp's disciples wish to "become possessors of his holy flesh" because martyrs like St. Polycarp they "worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master". The purpose of gathering his holy bones is also sated: "we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom". (Chapter 17)
I'll stand with [the unconverted Jews] in this, before I'll stand with you
Maybe I am wasting my time with you then? You know, I am Christian. I have no clue what you are.