Replies

“Or say that you are a Catholic. Do you suppose that the Holy Spirit, outside of the Catholic religion,
would not only acknowledge the true salvation of people outside that religion”

I am Catholic and not only does the Church teach that Christians outside the Church can be saved, but the Church also teaches that there is a possibility of even non-Christians being saved.”

“Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they have known its necessity.”
-Catechism of the Catholic Church -No.1260

The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that the Holy Spirit doesn’t work with Christians outside the Catholic Church. Despite the differences on a number of issues, there is actually much more that unites Catholics and other Christians than divides them. But the Catholic Church teaches that the Fullness of Truth resides in Her.

“you have to admit that these people are damned”

No one with breath still in their body is certainly damned. Who knows what crimes the good thief committed. He was probably on his way to damnation but He was saved in the last hours of his life. Moses murdered a man. King David made sure a man would be killed in battle so he could have his wife. Saul was there when Stephen was being stoned and who knows how many Christians died in prison after he dragged them off. God’s Mercy is Unfathomable and tries to the very end to save every human being. I can’t remember what Council it was, but the Catholic Church teaches that every human being receives sufficient Grace for Salvation. If this were not true, throngs on Judgment Day could accuse God of being unjust.

“What really matters is not any of these miracles but doctrine.”

But some people only first come to belief through miracles. If you have a hardened sinner who God sees will not repent unless He intervenes, He may work a miracle for that person or someone close to them so that they will open themselves up to the gift of faith. It’s true that Jesus wanted people to believe in him and his words whether or not He did miracles for them. Truth is more important than signs and wonders but miracles worked by Jesus and the Apostles helped establish and spread the Church. I admit that people who are interested in wonders and don’t care much about doctrine and Truth seem like the ones who will be taken in by false miracles at the end of the world.

“in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie, and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved. Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, that all who have approved wrongdoing may be condemned.”
-2 Thess 2:9-12

“No one with breath still in their body is certainly damned.”

Someone who denies the trinity, and asserts that salvation is only through baptism by approved members of their religion, can possibly be saved.

As for Roman Catholic teachings on people being saved outside of Christianity, certainly it does not match what your religion used to believe. And last I checked, Luther and the entire reformation, indeed, even Augustine, Chyrsostom, or any person who believed in salvation by faith alone without the working of the law, are anathematized by Trent and the many pronouncements by your Popes. Roman Catholic opinion now, which even goes so far as to open up the way to Atheists, is merely a sign of its weakness and decay. More importantly, however, is that it is anti-Biblical.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ignorance of Jesus Christ is no excuse, for the same reason why no one outside of the religion of Moses had any excuse, though not being under any covenant or obligation by God to have mercy on them. They are guilty for their sins, which they know, in themselves, are what they are.

It is for this claim that there is salvation outside of Jesus Christ that I would never want to unite in any way with the Roman Catholic church.

“No one with breath still in their body is certainly damned. Who knows what crimes the good thief committed. He was probably on his way to damnation but He was saved in the last hours of his life. Moses murdered a man. King David made sure a man would be killed in battle so he could have his wife. Saul was there when Stephen was being stoned and who knows how many Christians died in prison after he dragged them off. God’s Mercy is Unfathomable and tries to the very end to save every human being.”

God is not bound to have mercy on every human being, nor is His will so weak that He cannot save every human being if He wanted. He is utterly sovereign in salvation. Just like He only chose the promised Seed of Abraham, and saved them by His grace though they deserved it not. So likewise God in this new covenant only saves those whom He chooses to have mercy on out of the world, and not the whole world itself.

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?” (Rom 9:8-20)

What’s strange about your statements is that you seem to acknowledge that salvation is by grace only, and not of works, by pointing out the horrible sins of David and other such saints. Yet, the entire premise of a non-Christian being saved is built upon their supposed merits for to earn salvation.

This is why I cannot take such things seriously as Charismatics, especially those who took their hyper-emotionalism into the Catholic religion. It’s anti-Christian at its core and seems to be a vehicle for a false ecumenicism. Unless we hold fast to those doctrines delivered to us by the Apostles, we aren’t Christians.

Do miracles happen? Does God still answer prayers? Yes.

But does God spread false doctrines and damnation with His Spirit? No.