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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Just because the Holy Spirit decides to pass someone by (not necessarily speaking of you), and He decided to do so before the foundation of the world, doesn’t mean that you have lost your will. If you could believe …though, it’s impossible, seeing as how humanity is utterly subject to sin. The scripture is clear..

I'm sorry, I still don't see the purpose here - from your point of view.

So, again, other than your amusement or some competitive game you're playing, what is the point of you arguing with me about what a verse of Holy Scripture means?

You really do not believe you're going to change whether I or anyone else, Catholic or not, has been born elect or reprobate, do you? This is, at best, sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I’ve given you the opportunity to prove me wrong using the scripture. I’ve asked you to explain, using whatever means available, a simple verse. You haven’t, and you won’t. Who is to blame for this?

God, right?

Why do care so much about winning an argument that changes absolutely nothing important for anyone - yourself included?

And if it matters not a bit, why should I play what is just a game for you?

48 posted on 08/05/2013 9:39:45 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

“So, again, other than your amusement or some competitive game you’re playing, what is the point of you arguing with me about what a verse of Holy Scripture means?”


So what was wrong, exactly, with my previous reply? Just because you’re not happy with a response, doesn’t mean it’s a bad response. You’ve not explained what’s wrong with it. (Though, not explaining things seems to be your habit.) And, actually, there are many other responses I can give you, ranging from “Because I am commanded to,” to “because it robs you (speaking of the general “you,” and not you personally) of excuse on the great judgment day, since God reasoned with you, and proved that mankind can do nothing apart from His grace.”

Or as Augustine puts it,

“We most wholesomely confess that which we most rightly believe, that God, the Lord of all things, who created all things ‘very good,’ foreknew that evil would arise out of this good; and He also knew that it was more to the glory of His omnipotent goodness to bring good out of evil, than not to permit evil to be at all! And He so ordained the lives of angels and of men that He might first show in them what free-will could do, and then afterwards show what the free gift of His grace and the judgment of His justice could do.” (Augustine, qtd in Calvin’s Treatise on Eternal Predestination)

So which of these do you like the best, and will make you happy? If you say “none,” well, I can’t help you there. If you can’t see my “point of view” and what motivates me to respond to you, I can’t help you there, no matter how much you tell me you are answering from my “point of view.” In the end, it is between you and God. In the end it is between you and that verse in chapter 6 of the Gospel of John, and many more just like it. The forgiveness of sins is liberally offered, and you do not know the secret will of God. If you (speaking generally again) will not convert, you only have yourself to blame. If you feel yourself not drawn, well, then go and pray to be drawn. If you feel yourself lost, well then go and pray to be found. But if you find conversion, remember it was God who made you sensible to your lack, and who so arranged everything to bring you, His sheep from before the foundation of the world, into salvation.


49 posted on 08/05/2013 9:59:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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