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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; ShadowAce

Divine foreknowledge and salvation by grace through faith.

And you get: ‘you’re either born doomed or saved, luck of the draw as far as you can know.’ Same for your kids.

My appeal is to realize where Calvinism ends up: A capricious pagan god responsible for all personal sin and each man responsible for none.

However you get there, when you get there - no matter how well you think any piece fits - you should realize you made a very wrong turn somewhere. You’ve gone backward.


43 posted on 08/05/2013 8:23:21 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

“Divine foreknowledge and salvation by grace through faith.”


Looking at the verse, you’re saying that the Father had foreknowledge about whom He would give to the Son and whom He wouldn’t? To “give” is not a passive act, it is a positive one. Furthermore, Christ is saying it as an explanation to Jews who did not believe. He is telling them that they don’t believe because it was not given to them to believe. How does your 8 word sentence in any way address what it actually said? Please be more specific.

As for “why does it matter.” It’s the scripture, number one, and therefore is infallible in its teaching. Secondly, the Spirit works through the the hearing and reading of the Word of God, as those who were ordained to eternal life believed at the preaching of Paul.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Who knows? Maybe the Holy Spirit will use this preaching to bring you out of Catholicism?

So, again, please give a detailed explanation for the meaning of that verse. Not just a random sentence about what you wished it meant. Or, if that one is too hard, let’s try another one.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

What does this verse mean? Don’t give me just a single sentence here. Use the context, use commentaries, use whatever you gotta use. Just give me the clear meaning of this verse. OR just the other one. Or BOTH if you’re feeling good. Makes no difference to me, honestly.


45 posted on 08/05/2013 8:37:20 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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