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To: donmeaker; vladimir998; ebb tide; HarleyD; All

“I have a slight disagreement with the description of Pelagians. I submit, humbly that it is not grace that is within the power of humans but rather virtue. We can avoid sin today. We can decide to follow a path of virtue for an hour, for a day, for a week, for a month. Pelagius had a list of biblical characters that he asserted were virtuous, to include the Virgin Mary, Enoch who was translated, Elijah, John the Baptist.”


This is, actually, Pelagian, or at best, semi-Pelagian, both of which were condemned by the “Doctor of Grace” this article briefly mentions; though, unfortunately, the RCC does not take the remedy the doctor offers, nor, more importantly, heeds the Apostles whom they claim to succeed.

Augustine observes, commenting on the scripture, that virtue is the product of the grace of God, with grace being the unmerited favor of God freely given. It (virtue) is not inherent in man, nor is it foreseen in man to be the reason for God’s election, but is rather the work of God predestinated (seen by Augustine as the “preparation of grace” for those unworthy sinners chosen from out of the world) before the world began, in order to make the elect holy and conformed to the image of the Son (the application of grace). Even the virtue of faith is itself the gift of God, and therefore does not proceed naturally from the rotten core of the unregenerate. As Augustine says for himself, with many scriptural proofs:

“When, therefore, He predestinated us, He foreknew His own work by which He makes us holy and immaculate. Whence the Pelagian error is rightly refuted by this testimony. But we say, say they, that God did not foreknow anything as ours except that faith by which we begin to believe, and that He chose and predestinated us before the foundation of the world, in order that we might be holy and immaculate by His grace and by His work. But let them also hear in this testimony the words where he says, “We have obtained a lot, being predestinated according to His purpose who works all things.” Ephesians 1:11 He, therefore, works the beginning of our belief who works all things; because faith itself does not precede that calling of which it is said: “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance;” Romans 11:29 and of which it is said: “Not of works, but of Him that calls” Romans 9:12 (although He might have said, of Him that believes); and the election which the Lord signified when He said: “You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” John 15:16 For He chose us, not because we believed, but that we might believe, lest we should be said first to have chosen Him, and so His word be false (which be it far from us to think possible), “You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” Neither are we called because we believed, but that we may believe; and by that calling which is without repentance it is effected and carried through that we should believe.” (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints, Book 1, Chp. 38 — What is the View of the Pelagians, and What of the Semi-Pelagians, Concerning Predestination.)


4 posted on 08/04/2013 2:19:53 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I understand that some would condemn my poor attempts to be and do good. I do not believe that G-d is among those who would condemn someone for being and doing good.


8 posted on 08/04/2013 6:32:45 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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