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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Seems you are saying that Adam is responsible and/or God is responsible for sin.

So in your own your words..

Take the child molester, how is he responsible? How can he be held responsible?


18 posted on 08/05/2013 8:15:28 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

“Seems you are saying that Adam is responsible and/or God is responsible for sin. So in your own your words..”


I don’t know how I “seem” to say that, when I asserted with Augustine that the damned are condemned for their own sin. At best, I wasn’t clear, though your conclusion is still not founded on anything I said.

The difference between those whom God has mercy on, and those who have it not, is that in the former case God, through monergistic action, pulls them from a depraved state of mind and miraculously saves them. He puts His laws into their hearts, and causes them to walk in His precepts. Though they possess a will, it is a reformed will that, being given to them to believe, is changed so that they desire to believe in God (Jeremiah 32:39; Ezekiel 36:27; Hebrews 8:10; 10:16; John 6:64-65). This is the work of God from beginning to end. In the latter case, they are sinners already, justly condemned already by the death which passed down from Adam, (which God is fully just to condemn them with) with natures so depraved that they can do no good thing, and cannot even ascribe to themselves even the slightest of good things to themselves (Romans 3:12; 2 Corinthians 3:5). We do not teach that they do not have a will either, but that their will, not merely being prone to sin, is utterly subject to sin; and so mankind, in and of himself, is utterly worthless and incapable of coming to God aright. Not that God forces them to, but because they want to.

But if it be said that God is ultimately responsible, because He created these people, knowing full well they would be damned, and utterly ordaining that it would be so, when He chose to elect some and to pass them by, and then using them to accomplish His own purpose, as Pharaoh or Judas... well, that is a debate you have to have with God, and not me.

Pro_16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


20 posted on 08/05/2013 12:03:00 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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