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To: HarleyD
" They don't care if the consequence for their action is hell."

Rather...They don't care if believe the consequence for their action is hell.

"God has to give us a new heart to not be so inclined to sin."

Amen!

From our position,an impossible task,we don't even fully KNOW our own "deceitfull above all things and desperately wicked" heart.From my admittedly limited understanding it seems to me that God first 'nukes' the old heart ie: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and* that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)and then exhorts us to KNOW that,to believe it in our heart.Almost every prayer of Paul's in the NT is to that end.That we would be persuaded,that we would understand,compehend,grasp,take hold of that which God has freely given us!

I can't help thinking that if that KNOWING were to be twisted into a 'sin of presumtion' then that deceitfull heart is attempting to thwart the beginning of God's good work in us in order to remain in control! To remain for all intents and purposes 'lord' over us.Keeping us in bondage to the fear and doubt of death and hell to the point we constantly are looking at how bad we are instead of how GOOD He is.

112 posted on 08/03/2013 7:23:09 PM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: HarleyD; daniel1212; pastorbillrandles; melsec
forgot to include...

Peter goes so far as to tell us "if you do these things ye shall NEVER FALL" (2 Peter 1:10)

Who but the enemy of men's souls would want to keep that assurance from us?

"If the Son makes you free you shall be free indeed"

113 posted on 08/03/2013 7:32:58 PM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: mitch5501
Rather...They don't care if believe the consequence for their action is hell.

That is a most excellent correction, thanks.

From our position,an impossible task,we don't even fully KNOW our own "deceitfull above all things and desperately wicked" heart.

Absolutely. In our Sunday School class last week our instructor stated that the more he learned about the holiness of God, the more he understood the depths of his sinfulness. Our hearts are deceitful. We like to think we're good people but we're really not. And you hear this today how we're made in the image of God and God made everything good. Therefore, we must be good. All this excludes the fall of man. All God did in the garden was simply showed man what would happen if man was given a choice between God and a piece of fruit.

As Michelangelo stated:

The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that their wills are bent towards different courses. God must bend our wills to follow Him. If one understands this then we know why non-believers choose to sin and we pray to God that He will show His grace and mercy to bend their wills towards Him. We understand their desire to sin. They want to sin because it is in their nature.

At the same time we should be praying that God who called us out of darkness will bend our wills ever more to His glorious light. There is no reason Christians should sin. Christ in His humanity showed us we could live a perfect life. Yet we sin. We grieve and quench the Spirit rather then be led by the Spirit as our Lord was. God gives us manna, the bread of the angels, but we want quail. But God is faithful and understanding as He slowly removes the sin from our lives.

Non-believers cannot understand the deceitfulness of their hearts. Christians sometime misses this same point as well. We are constantly warned to be on guard.

116 posted on 08/04/2013 3:38:27 AM PDT by HarleyD
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