Posted on 07/26/2013 7:56:13 PM PDT by marshmallow
Fatima, Harissa, Damascus, Samalut, Assiut, Zeitun and many other places where the Virgin appeared are the destination of incessant pilgrimages from Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran. Pilgrims in search of physical but also spiritual healing; spontaneous and mystical prayer and not the schematic and formal verses of official Islam. The iconoclast Salafists destroy places of pilgrimage every year. But the devotion to Mary is growing, also fueled by the stories of the Koran. The spiritual dialogue between Christians and Muslims is much more promising than cultural, theological or political dialogue.
Beirut (AsiaNews) - Each year millions of Muslims come on pilgrimage to the Catholic Marian shrines. Not only to the major shrines such as Fatima in Portugal or Harissa in Lebanon, but also to Egypt, Syria, Iran. Muslims - especially Muslim women - go to give thanks to the Madonna or great Christian saints, like St. Charbel or St. George.
In the eyes of many Westerners these gestures seem ridiculous or false: they speak of apparitions, of prayers, but then there are massacres, killings, violence in the name of religion!
Like it or not, the religious phenomenon is alive in Latin America, in Africa, in Asia. When you see millions of Hindus go to bathe in the dirty water of the sacred river it may seem like a ridiculous thing. Yet for those who do it is an act of purification, of prayer. The West is tolerant and benevolent towards other religions, but its attitude towards Christians is increasingly hypercritical. The West is not post-Hindu, post-Islam. It is only post-Christian!
The point is that in the West, the supernatural is considered outdated, it is branded as mythology, illusion, instead the West is forever denouncing the difficulties that neither miracles nor pilgrimages can erase.
But in the rest of the world the spiritual.....
(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...
From Pope Leo
Apparently you Catholics pick and choose your papal writings just as you pick and choose which parts of the Bible are inspired.
I don't suppose these mean anything to you?
Just why is it you evolutionist Catholics hate the Masons so much? Are the spreading creationism or something?
God loves the spoken word as well as the remembered word. What better way for the spoken word to be remembered AND followed for the rest of time than the written word? It obviously took some time before mankind figured out HOW to write the spoken words, but God had a hand in that, too. There is no better method of preserving exactly what God said than the written word. We have the sacred Scriptures because GOD intended us to have them. Man cannot claim the credit for that either.
Kindly refrain from posting to me in future. Thank you.
It is absolutely maddening to see these smirking, cruel buffoons who juxtapose their enlightenment skepticism with ridiculous anachronisms like Masonic conspiracies or breathless emoting about post-Biblical miracles, which are just as scientifically impossible as anything in Genesis. I can only assume they do it out of sadistic delight.
Let me tell you a story that you will appreciate, boatbums (goodness knows the Catholics here should but never will):
Once upon a time, long long ago, I was so tired of the utter confusion and subjectivism of Protestantism (and being a Fundamentalist, this was a matter of no small consequence). I dreamed of having been born before Protestantism, back when there was one, undivided church (another historical fallacy). How much peace and serenity there must have been when there was only one church to choose from, even if it were (theoretically) the wrong one. And one day I took that great leap, fought the prejudices of a lifetime, and joined that allegedly "ancient" church so all questions and doubts would cease and I could rest securely in the arms of my "holy mother church."
It was the cruelest illusion of all time. The Catholic Church is nothing like this and probably never was. It is skeptical, modernistic, iconoclastic, and seething with ridicule at people with simple beliefs--unless those beliefs are of pagan origin. It loves and celebrates illiterate Mexican peasants but has no use for "wetbacks" with red necks--something about them not being smart enough for such a wondrously intellectual religion.
This may cause this post to get pulled, so read it quickly: I have learned to hate the Catholic Church more than I ever did when I knew absolutely nothing about it. And the Catholics on FR never do anything to change my mind. They are the most hateful, hypocritical, and cruelest people on the Internet. Their church is being destroyed now, though its final fall is still a way off. They deserve this for their detestable teachings about G-d authoring lies or being scientifically ignorant--all the while loudly proclaiming their belief in "miracles" that aren't in Genesis but which are equally as scientifically impossible.
I do not wish them well. Their abominable hatred of all I hold dear leaves me no sympathy with them at all.
Maybe you should join the Mason lodge?
The book is what Yehova provided.
Fascinating. I thought that God provided two stone tablets, and their backup when the first ones got smashed. Which book did God provide? And who did He give it to?
You mean the Catholic Church has not yet cast Exodus into the garbage heap along with Genesis? Wow. I'm pleasantly surprised.
So, just what parts of the Bible do Catholics have official permission to believe nowadays?
Wrong. G-d Himself wrote the Torah--according to a mystical tradition, 974 generations before the Creation--and then dictated it to Moses letter for letter. Moses was a secretary, nothing more. The Torah is of entirely Divine origin. Shows what you know.
He did not provide any of the rest of the OT and none of the New.
My point is that most of the word is written by men.
This is true. The Na"KH and the "new testament" depend on their canonizing authorities for their authenticity.
All this goes to show that the Torah is the Supreme Revelation which judges all others, and is not a mere temporary, preparatory revelation as most people think.
That really isn't true. In fact:
Bishop Gauthey of Nevers and the Church exhumed the body of Bernadette Soubirous on 22 September 1909, in the presence of representatives appointed by the postulators of the cause, two doctors and a sister of the community. They claimed that although the crucifix in her hand and her rosary had both oxidized, her body appeared incorrupt — preserved from decomposition. This was cited as one of the miracles to support her canonization. They washed and reclothed her body before burial in a new double casket. The Church exhumed the corpse a second time on 3 April 1919. A doctor who examined the body noted, "The body is practically mummified, covered with patches of mildew and quite a notable layer of salts, which appear to be calcium salts. ... The skin has disappeared in some places, but it is still present on most parts of the body."[17]
In 1925, the church exhumed the body for a third time. They took relics, which were sent to Rome. A precise imprint of the face was molded so that the firm of Pierre Imans in Paris could make a wax mask based on the imprints and on some genuine photos to be placed on her body. This was common practice for relics in France as it was feared that the blackish tinge to the face and the sunken eyes and nose would make an unpleasant impression on the public. Imprints of the hands were also taken for the presentation of the body and the making of wax casts. The remains were then placed in a gold and crystal reliquary in the Chapel of Saint Bernadette at the mother house in Nevers. The site is visited by many pilgrims and the body of Saint Bernadette is still shown despite being nearly 130 years old. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Soubirous)
I have a few questions for you. If Bernadette's body is "incorrupt", what will happen to it at the resurrection? Will she still take on that incorrupt body or will she be given a REAL glorified and genuinely incorrupt one? Also, she died at a young age (35) from a long-term illness (tuberculosis) that, apparently, even these miraculous waters had no power to heal. And, of the millions of people that pilgrimage to this site, only 67 "cures" have been verified by the Catholic Church. I'm afraid that, just as these Muslims mentioned in the OP come expecting a "spiritual" experience, Christians who depend upon Mary, rather than Almighty God for healing are usually disappointed.
I'm not saying this to insult anyone but rather to speak to what may really be going on here and at other places. If souls are not touched to follow and believe on Jesus Christ for salvation, it is nothing more than a sideline distraction meant to keep hearts blinded to the truth of Jesus.
People who call Jesus Christ a liar often suffer from paranoia and violent anger fits of anger when their delusions are questioned.
Symptoms include extreme anger when asked simple questions, attribution of motives to others without sufficient evidence to make such an attribution, and membership in cults or obscure spiritual movements they see as far superior to Christianity.
I appreciate your making it crystal clear that you hate Jesus Christ and all things Christian as it's nice to see the sort of people self-proclaimed "Christian" anti-Catholic folks are glad to have on their side as they attack Catholicism.
It's interesting to see people who claim to follow Jesus Christ accept as an ally someone who uses a Palestinian antisemitic slur as a screen name, denies that Jesus Christ is God, and hates Catholics, when they say the fact that Catholics worship Jesus Christ as their Savior, God from God, the Word made flesh, is meaningless.
As for "rednecks" I'll tell the guys that later today when we're target shooting out at the barn. They'll get a good laugh out of knowing that Catholics don't like "rednecks" in the KoC.
It's obvious you don't believe the rules regarding mind reading apply to you but just for the record, I don't ever rub my hands together with glee over sad, lost, souls like yours, I pray for them. I also didn't realize that asking you to explain your claim that Jesus Christ is a fraud and all Christianity is a scam full of gullible dupes was "goading" you.
have a nice day
With the written word, someone can always go back and verify what was said.
With oral tradition, there is simply NO WAY to verify that what was passed down has been passed down faithfully.
The claim that it's been supernaturally protected is desperation to an astounding degree.
LOL A little jealousy for those of us who lived aboard for a period I see.
The only anger I have shown you is for your absolute refusal to defend the Book of Genesis or to stand up to your evolutionist/higher critical co-religionists when they say blasphemous things, as you well know. And your refusal to to do it over the number of posts we have exchanged shows how much fun you derive from the hypocritical denial of Genesis by people who claim to believe in miracles.
Symptoms include extreme anger when asked simple questions, attribution of motives to others without sufficient evidence to make such an attribution, and membership in cults or obscure spiritual movements they see as far superior to Christianity.
And now you're just engaging in name-calling. Why don't you just push a Darwin fish while you're at it? You know you want to.
I appreciate your making it crystal clear that you hate Jesus Christ and all things Christian as it's nice to see the sort of people self-proclaimed "Christian" anti-Catholic folks are glad to have on their side as they attack Catholicism.
You say that as if it were a bad thing.
It's interesting to see people who claim to follow Jesus Christ accept as an ally someone who uses a Palestinian antisemitic slur as a screen name,
Wrong. It's a right wing Catholic anti-Semitic slur, used ironically.
denies that Jesus Christ is God, and hates Catholics, when they say the fact that Catholics worship Jesus Christ as their Savior, God from God, the Word made flesh, is meaningless.
Some "gxd" that has to use natural physical laws to create a universe. Where did the natural physical laws come from?
As for "rednecks" I'll tell the guys that later today when we're target shooting out at the barn. They'll get a good laugh out of knowing that Catholics don't like "rednecks" in the KoC.
Evolutionists aren't real rednecks.
It's obvious you don't believe the rules regarding mind reading apply to you
Haven't you heard? I'm a member of the Elders of Zion! I give JR his orders from the Mossad! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
but just for the record, I don't ever rub my hands together with glee over sad, lost, souls like yours, I pray for them.
I doubt you pray for people like me. Ignorant inbred morons who believe Genesis is literally true would bring down the property values in your "heaven."
I also didn't realize that asking you to explain your claim that Jesus Christ is a fraud and all Christianity is a scam full of gullible dupes was "goading" you.
As you are well aware, you have goaded me since last night by refusing by your refusal to defend the integrity of Genesis. I have not even attempted to explain my rejection of J*sus to you, which I no more need to justify than you do your rejection of Joseph Smith. Judaism came first. It has nothing to prove. The burden of proof is upon chrstianity.
have a nice day
I would say the same, but I don't like to be dishonest.
Yeah, I heard, I heard that people who claim they will attain Salvation by shoveling the droppings out of animal stalls are insane and have a false sense of superiority.
Yeah, that was surprising to me seeing as I was hardly bragging when I shared a brief quip about our lives on my "about" page. Little did I know that some people here - presumed Conservatives - would express such class-envy and disparaging comments towards people who worked their entire lives to fulfill a dream! I never even said how BIG the boats we lived aboard were nor the fact that they were our ONLY home. I would have LOVED to travel on a mega-yacht, but I wouldn't want to ever own one (not that we have that kind of money). It takes megabucks to maintain them much less hire crews. If anyone out there ever needs experienced folks to help them enjoy the fruits of their labor - we're ready! But even IF we had a boat for vacations plus lived in a nice house, is there something wrong in that? It's true that some people don't really need any excuse to smear and criticize someone who disagrees with them. It sure kept them from having to deal with the gist of the thread, didn't it?
I think many of US FF's did the best they could considering their view and upbringing of what they considered to be Christian. The Calvinistic view of Christianity had many flaws and the influence of this view is why we have problems today when carried out in time
In order to begin to fix a problem .one must recognize the flaws. There is nothing wrong with that, Jim
The late +Bishop Fulton Sheen explains what I'm saying here very well
First, the dream. Because our early settlers broke away from the political and religious quarrels, they assumed that they were going back into Paradise. Every ticket holder on the Mayflower and their early descendants thought they were coming to the Garden of Eden where they would meet Adam before the Fall.
John Winthrop promised a "New City"; Whitman, Holmes and Thoreau described man in a state of innocence; Franklin wanted the Seal of the United States to be Moses dividing the Red Sea, showing how much we had departed from the traditions of Europe; Jefferson suggested the seal be the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night by which the children of the New Israel were led to the Promised Land. America was the land of milk and honey; its Frontiers were illimitable -- they could be pushed back and back, revealing new lands, buried gold and unlimited freedom.
The Myth of the natural goodness of man gave the assurance of an ever-increasing progress. If a man did not become wealthy, it was because he was lazy. Cream naturally comes to the top, scum sinks to the bottom. The ethic of work glorified for us the Great American Dream that one had only to dig. Progress was an ever ascending curve: it was only the past that had to be left behind.
Then the dream changed into a nightmare because our assumptions were all wrong. The dream was a reaction against European religious thought at the time of our Founding Fathers that man is intrinsically wicked. But the great religious traditions of the age never taught that man was evil, but only that his intellect was darkened and his will weakened by rebellion against God. Hence, newly found America could not be a Paradise where man could dream of unbounded wealth. Man is a weak creature whether you put him in a new United States or on the moon. But the silly notion that he is a god and America is a paradise is like trying to place a marble bust on the stem of a rose.
Politicians during election time, capitalists who have made quick fortunes in oil and psychologists who blame environment rather than an evil will for the drug anti-culture still subscribe to the American Dream. And by doing so, they contribute to the Nightmare which we are now entering.
The more you build up the expectations of a boy about the pleasure he will get from a toy, the angrier he will be when the toy breaks down. Telling youth that "America is greening" only angers them when they find it browning in the Winter of its discontent. Unbounded pride or what the Greek dramatist called 'Hubris', has in the second act brought a judgment and in the third act a fear of 'Ate' or disaster.
In this Hour of Frustration when we transfer 125 billion dollars a year to the oil producing nations, which is equal to the entire farm crop of the U.S. in one year; when over eight per cent of the population is unemployed; when our manners become crude and only our gasoline refined; when we have the feeling we have touched the Last Frontier and yet unlike mice in a maze keep knocking our heads against it; when we are forced to get along with less -- when all these evidences of a broken dream are upon us, some try to drug the public conscience by telling them that Progress is still with us provided: First, we get rid of God; second, we preserve the right to climb into any bed; and third, that we be allowed to make money by pornography.
What has happened is for the best. We have learned that a man's greatness does not depend on what he has, but on the recognition of limits. The moment we discover discipline, or the ability to limit our ego, our greatness surpasses anything in the past.
-†- Fulton J. Sheen D.D., Ph. D., ‘Bishop Sheen Writes’; November 1975.
GK Chesterton, Hilare Belloc and others understood this well as well.
Here is some disgusting quotes from Jefferson
Were the Pope, or his holy allies, to send in mission to us some thousands of Jesuit priests to convert us to their orthodoxy, I suspect that we should deem and treat it as a national aggression on our peace and faith.” —Thomas Jefferson to Michael Megear, 1823. ME 15:434
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814
Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820
So you’re here to push the theory that our founders were flawed therefore the Declaration is flawed, the Constitution is flawed, our founding was flawed and our nation is flawed. Got news for you. You and Comrade Obama can both kiss my flawed American ass.
Bye.
Umm, the Jewish oral tradition is among the best in the world. In a world only two percent of people (at best) were literate - and in the world of Exodus, that was less than a quarter of a percent - the oral tradition was the best and only way of communicating to more than 99% of the people.
You cannot apply contemporary American culture to Genesis and Exodus era Jews.
You have a fascinating definition of what one might call 'awareness'. I'd be also fascinated by what you mean 'some time'.
It may amaze you to realize that Catholics are taught to believe that the Torah was dictated by God. Evidently you weren't taught that. Shame on us.
So, just what parts of the Bible do Catholics have official permission to believe nowadays?
Only all of it. We cannot believe any more Bible than there actually is.
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