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To: Heart-Rest; what's up
There's no record in the massive history recorded in the Bible of a saint on earth praying to anyone but God. There's a reason for that." Yes, the reason is that no human being was in heaven until Jesus died, so no one asked them to pray for them in heaven in the Old Testament because they weren't there yet.

That provides no excuse, as the PTDS doctrine includes praying to angels, while after the Lord's resurrection heaven abounded with believers, yet there is still not evidence of anyone praying to anyone in heaven but the Lord, and the Lord's own instructions on the manner in which believers are to pray specifies it is to Father God, and the Holy Spirit directly prays to God, and the believers immediate access to Him is made clear, and Christ alone is set forth as the all sufficient, able and available mediator in heaven btwn God and man.

Yet as Scripture is not the supreme authority for Catholics, and actual Scripture warrant is not necessary for her doctrines, thus she teaches traditions of men as doctrines, and then abuses Scripture by trying to support her tradition by it, but which at least makes her deception more manifest.

881 posted on 07/16/2013 7:58:01 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; Heart-Rest
From http://jimmyakin.com/2006/02/old_testament_s.html:

For long centuries, the Church has referred to certain Old Testament persons as “Saints.”

The ancient MARTYROLOGIUM ROMANUM (the Church’s official “calendar book” of saints) that was re-edited and re-published in 2001 lists the days of several Old Testament saints–and calls them by the title “Saint”.

Saint Melchisedech, August 26.
Saint Abraham, October 9.
Saint Moses, September 4.
Saint Joshua, September 1.
Saint Ezra, July 13.
Saint Hosea, October 17.
Saint Obadiah, November 19.
Saint Jonah, September 21.
Saint Elijah, July 20.
Saint Elisha, June 14.
Saint Jeremiah, May 1.
Saint Samuel, August 20.
Saint David, December 29.
Saint Michael and Saint Raphael, September 29.
Saint Isaiah, May 9.
Saint Job, May 10.
Saint Zechariah, September 6.
Saint Joel, October 19.
Saint Amos, June 15.
Saint Ezekiel, July 23.
Saint Nahum, December 1.
Saint Habakkuk, December 2.
Saint Zephaniah, December 3.
Saint Haggai, December 16.
Saint Malachi, December 18.
Saint Micah, December 21.

All the Forefather Saints of Jesus Christ, December 24. (In Latin this can include “foremothers”. I looked for Old Testament women’s names, but didn’t find any … yet. The book has nearly 800 pages.) Notice the prophets in December … leading up to the Birth of the Savior.

909 posted on 07/16/2013 8:56:40 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: daniel1212
"Yet as Scripture is not the supreme authority for Catholics, and actual Scripture warrant is not necessary for her doctrines, thus she teaches traditions of men as doctrines, and then abuses Scripture by trying to support her tradition by it, but which at least makes her deception more manifest."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Supreme Authority for Catholics is Almighty God.

Jesus Christ began to build His Church before one word of the New Testament was written down, and that Church obviously did NOT have a New Testament to use as an authority at that time. The Supreme Authority for the Church that Jesus Christ built was always Almighty God. Right from the very beginning of the Church that Jesus Christ founded, the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church in her teachings before one word of the New Testament was written down, and the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Church in her teachings ever since, just like Jesus Christ solemnly promised.

That Catholic Church which Jesus Christ built is NOT based on the traditions of men -- that is utterly false, no matter how many times you choose to repeat it. The Catholic Church which Jesus Christ built is based on the Holy Teachings of God, given to men.

The Scriptures are very important, but they only contain a small smidgen of what God has done, and what God continues to do.

John 21:25 explicitly states that Jesus did many other things that were NOT written down, and that all the books in the world would likely not be able to hold all of them.

God also continues to do many other new things all the time, which are not recorded in the Scriptures. (For example, He gave you your life, and that is not recorded in the Bible.)

You also said in an earlier post (#788) that Patrick Madrid tries to sound like an evangelical by quoting so much scripture. With all due respect, BALONEY! Rather, Patrick Madrid sounds like a Catholic. Having gone to many thousands of different Protestant services for many years, I can tell you without a doubt that Catholics typically hear many more readings from the Scriptures in their Masses than Protestants do in their typical services.

If you don't believe that, I urge you to try an experiment for about two or three weeks. The Daily Mass on EWTN is run live at 8 AM Eastern time (then usually rerun at 12 noon and 7PM). To watch it online, go to the EWTN web site here:

   EWTN Web Site

then highlight the word "Television" at the top of that page, then move down to highlight "Live TV - English", then over to "LIve Streams", "United States English", and click on that. A window pops open which will show the live (or rerun) Mass.

Watch those Daily Masses for about two or three weeks, and write down all the explicit Biblical texts hich are read during the Masses. (Don't worry about all the many other additional Bibical references that are made during each Mass, but only the explicit Bible texts given and read during each Mass.)

Be completely honest with yourself when you assess those Bible readings. (Remember that dishonesty comes from Satan.)

(By the way, that is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the Catholic use of Bible readings every single day -- some time do a Google search on "Liturgy of the Hours" and "Catholic Bible Study", and "Lectio Divina", just for extended starters.)

I have to sign off now, but I hope you get a chance tomorrow to start watching those Daily Masses, so you can see for yourself, and not keep repeating your many erroneous statements, over and over and over again.

Goodnight.

935 posted on 07/16/2013 10:10:37 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
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