“his is why the Arminians even invented the idea of an “initiating grace” in the first place, because man has no native ability to “respond to God’s call.”
Grace is grace.
“19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”
Notice they knew God, and rejected him.
“At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, “Cornelius.” 4 And he stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God.”
Notice that before Cornelius converted, the angel said of him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God.”
Can a man do something good before conversion? Of course.
“14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.”
No man left alone by God would turn to God, but God has left none of us alone. He has given his revelation of himself to all of us in some measure or another.
The point of your Romans 3 quote is this:
“For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.”
But Paul goes on:
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.”
Notice Paul puts no restrictions on who may believe - as Jesus did not. Whosoever.
There is no indication in scripture that man is so depraved that he cannot repent - not unless God has abandoned him in his unbelief. While one passage calls us dead, others call us sick, captive, slaves, blind, etc. God in his grace reveals himself to man. Some respond, others do not.
“18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
We won’t solve a dispute that has gone on for 2000 years - from well before Calvin was born. I’ll go on, feeling free to sing “Jesus loves you, this I know”. Some in the SBC will sing a different song. Oh well.
“It’s cuz I meant to be mean...”
And that is why I usually avoid the religion forum like the plague. The meanest people on FreeRepublic are the ones arguing about who God is...
“Grace is grace.”
God’s favor for everyone isn’t actually equal. And that’s all that grace is. It is unconditional favor, which is given to some men, more to others, or a favor leading to a different result in others. There is no “standard” grace that is the same for everyone.
The knowledge of God in Romans 1 is not revelation of Jesus Christ. It is knowledge made known to the hearts of men not to bring them infallibly to Christ, as the elect are: “All that the Father hath given me shall come to me” (John 6), but rather so that they are without excuse for their judgment. Because they have, through every rational means available, the power within them to believe in God, but choose to corrupt that knowledge. All the Jews had that by nature, yet Christ does not state that they had God’s grace to believe. He states that they did not believe because it was not given to them by the Father to believe.
“Can a man do something good before conversion? Of course.”
You actually didn’t prove that statement. You just made an assertion that Cornelius’s seeking of God was by his own free-will, and not rather by the special drawing of God.
“No man left alone by God would turn to God, but God has left none of us alone. He has given his revelation of himself to all of us in some measure or another.”
Except He has left people alone when it comes to His effectual grace to save a man. All throughout the Gospel of John, Christ tells the unbelieving Jews that they do not believe because they are not the children of God, and because it was not given to them to believe. Your religion simply has no basis within those scriptures, no matter how hard you try to wrest other scriptures to save you.
Rom 9:11-15 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
God is perfectly sovereign in doing this, and is not obligated to give all people mercy. Furthermore, the entire concept of “choosing” precludes the idea that all are given the same mercy and compassion. If all are chosen, then no one was actually chosen.
“Notice Paul puts no restrictions on who may believe - as Jesus did not.”
This has already been refuted, many times, though you keep repeating yourself. The restriction is “No man can come unto me, unless it is given to him by my Father.” That’s a pretty big restriction.
If all are “given,” then the Jews in John 6 would not have received the response they did, and Jesus later would have prayed for them, instead of just those who are given to Him.
“God in his grace reveals himself to man. Some respond, others do not.”
The external call is indeed given to all, yet it is written “few are chosen.” It is the Sheep who are the good ground, whom Christ knows, and who know Him.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And they are not chosen because they chose Christ. They are chosen by Christ to bare fruit.
Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
And again, not for any foreseen works, but for the grace and purpose of God.
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The same sense is in that quote from Romans 9. Before either child had done good or evil, and “not of him that runneth, or him that willeth, but God who sheweth mercy” (also Romans 9).
“And that is why I usually avoid the religion forum like the plague. The meanest people on FreeRepublic are the ones arguing about who God is...”
This is why I dislike responding to your particular posts, since you’re quite vicious to people, and then blame them for reacting to it. It’s quite hypocritical.
If you don’t like fights, you shouldn’t start them by immediately accusing all your opponents of being arrogant, without love, and not knowing God as well as you do. It’s the height of being a Pharisee.
So go on singing that Jesus loves you, but that He doesn’t love Calvinists. I am indifferent to your contempt.