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To: what's up

Calvin taught that God chooses people before time, and then irresistibly saves them and them alone. The chosen ones are born again and THEN believe - Limited Atonement/Irresistible Grace.

But John wrote: “...but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Do you believe, and live? That is Arminian thought. Do you live, then believe? That is Calvin.


63 posted on 07/12/2013 5:26:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

“Do you believe, and live? That is Arminian thought. Do you live, then believe? That is Calvin.”


Actually, the teaching is that we believe when the Holy Spirit quickens our souls and reveals to us that Jesus Christ is the Lord (1 Co 12:13). IOW, it’s more accurate to say that belief and regeneration happen at exactly the same time, or, perhaps, like a hammer hitting a nail, if we liken the hammer to the quickening power of the Holy Spirit, and the nail entering the board to the faith of the man.


65 posted on 07/12/2013 5:36:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Mr Rogers
The chosen ones are born again and THEN believe

No, the sequence isn't correct. Belief and re-birth are simultaneous. Eph 1:4 says believers were chosen before time but the moment of rebirth occurs with faith.

But John wrote: “...but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

And how does this contradict Calvinism? Calvin taught that belief i.e. faith brings life.

Do you live, then believe? That is Calvin.

This is false.

67 posted on 07/12/2013 5:41:52 PM PDT by what's up
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