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To: onyx

Loved JP, don’t believe in instant canonization. Should Willie McGee be in baseball’s Hall of Fame?
Was JP a transcendently holy or effective man for Christ?
Why is he not tarred with the inaction on the priest abuse scandals, as is Benedict?
Sainthood should not be a popularity contest, but it is no surprise that the Church, which dumped Latin for Babel, goes for instant sainthood.


4 posted on 07/05/2013 5:48:08 AM PDT by steve8714 (Any homosexual man can marry any woman he wants. Just like the President.)
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To: steve8714
Sainthood should not be a popularity contest, but it is no surprise that the Church, which dumped Latin for Babel, goes for instant sainthood.

Good question. I don't doubt for a second that he should be sainted. But, in the words of the Ents, let us not be hasty.

5 posted on 07/05/2013 5:54:41 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: steve8714; All

Unless I’m seriously misunderstanding something—which, as a relatively new Catholic convert, is definitely possible!—sainthood does not mean that the Church has stated that the saint was perfect in his lifetime. Sainthood means there is now proof that the saint is in heaven, out of purgatory, and therefore cleansed of all earthly sin, which we all have.

It’s as well to bear in mind that while we may think this was a fast trip to sainthood, and we may view St John Paul’s errors on this earth as very serious, the perspective is different in heaven, where time is not as we experience it. Time as we understand it is limited to the universe, but heaven is outside of the universe and things must be different there. By our reckoning a person may have spent a million years in purgation or five minutes, but it is sufficient by God’s judgement.

The fact is that people prayed to St John Paul for miraculous healings and did receive them, so it’s evident that he was in a position sufficiently close to the Lord to appeal to Him on behalf of sufferers on earth, so in the absence of any earthly medical explanation, we can conclude he’s in heaven and close to the Lord.

Personally, I always thought that his handling, or lack of handling, of the problems of the priesthood was more due to a type of naivete about psychology and a lack of comprehension of the scale of this evil, than any deceptiveness. I could be completely wrong, of course. But I’ve met so many good, good people, priests and lay Catholics alike, who thought that when a child molester gets on his knees before his bishop and sobs and says he hates himself and will never ever ever do it again, that they meant it. They are tremendously persuasive and manipulative, and when you witness their sobs, their tears, their snot, their real agony, you’d have to have a heart of stone to disbelieve them. (Ask me how I know. No, wait. Don’t ask.) That heart of stone is not easily created in religious people. Certainly not in a man like Karol Wojtyla.

Please forgive me if I write out of turn. Perhaps as a newbie I have no right to opine.


7 posted on 07/05/2013 7:46:12 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare--now a Marine Mom)
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