Stranger in a Mormon Land

...There are many things that you will recognize, including concepts and even scriptures, but they will be recast in a way that is weird, in fact, utterly foreign to you.

Sure, members of this relatively new faith will use the same Hebrew Bible, but they will call it something different, the “Old Testament,” which hints at a divide. They also use other authoritative books, and their method of interpretation has little to nothing to do with your own tradition. They have transformed the Passover meal into something barely recognizable to you. They profess faith in a messiah, but their idea of him is different from your own hopeful notion of the savior of the Jewish people and the world. They affirm the truth of your religion to a point, but insist on a newer, fuller revelation from God that has superseded yours, and invite you to join them in this final dispensation.

My visit to the Mormon ward was a bit like that, and included one young missionary’s well-drilled attempts to proselytize me in the break between the “church” and “Sunday school” portions of the morning. Latter-day Saints don’t go in for compulsion in religion, just really strong and persistent suggestion, so we kept it civil. (Missionary: “If you pray about this, God will show you.” Journalist: “Yeah, I’ll get right on that.”)

One thing outsiders usually don’t understand about Mormonism is that, outside the official power structure in Salt Lake City, it’s mostly a religion of earnest amateurs. The white-shirt, black tie-wearing, backpack-toting missionaries (known as “elders”), pastors (“bishops”), and bishops (“stake presidents”—yes, it’s confusing) don’t draw salaries and serve for fixed terms. There is thus a real sense, shared by both audience and speaker, that the guy up there talking is one of us...

Yes they are. But much as global warming dogmatists claim it is settled science not subject to discussion, so do some Nicene dogmatists with their favorite dogma. See post #40 for a case in point.

Like Jan Hus, I do not even claim the Nicene Creed is false. I simply reject the notion that a majority of Christian religious leaders representing even a majority Christian denominations and called together by a political entity at one point in time can pronounce a doctrine or dogma as binding on everyone as some sort of litmus test to earn the right to call themselves Christian.

I hold that Jesus Christ himself will make that determination in his own way and time. In stating that belief, I concede that the Nicene Creed is as important to some as freedom of conscious is to me.

By the same token, I do not refuse the right of any liberal to hold and proselyte any belief which they wish, I only refuse to allow them to impose them on me.

I simply reject the notion that a majority of Christian religious leaders representing even a majority Christian denominations and called together by a political entity at one point in time can pronounce a doctrine or dogma as binding on everyone as some sort of litmus test to earn the right to call themselves Christian. I hold that Jesus Christ himself will make that determination in his own way and time. In stating that belief, I concede that the Nicene Creed is as important to some as freedom of conscious is to me.

Who is this "Jesus Christ" fellow of whom you speak? The name sounds familiar, but I'm not sure that any of us have heard of him.

“I’m not sure how the Catholics (or the Nicene majority, for that matter) resolve the dispute about Jesus praying to God in the Garden of Gethsemane or later on the cross. Is he praying to himself?”

I’ve witnessed this argument put forth by those in the mormon cult many, many times. They consider it convincing in some way. It is not.

I’ve come to understand this is a persuasive argument to mormons because it rests on the foundation of a misunderstanding of the nature of God. Mormon teaching perverts the image of God by making Him into a mere created being. It perverts the nature of God by making god into less than god. It multiplies gods instead of rightly dividing the Scriptures to understand the true image and nature of God. All of these theological errors lead to statements like the one quoted above.

In the end, Satan’s Fashion Show continues to bring back heresies from the past, time and time again. Mormonism has plenty. Jehovah’s Witnesses have plenty. They often overlap as to their favorite falsehoods. Both cults are American Made.

Bonus: Mormonism has 4 Earth Gods: Mormon God the Father, who was created and later became a mormonic god. Mormon Jesus, who started life as a created spirit-being (just like Satan), The mormon Holy Ghost, who was created, but did not get a body because he did something naughty and finally Mormon Heavenly Mother, who was a created spirit being, who got a body and is now eternally sealed to Mormon God the Father. They breed in the heavens. She is eternally pregnant and pops out spirit children to populate the earth.

There may be more than one Mormon Heavenly Mother... the mormonic verses and cult teach there is eternal polygamy.

Did you ever read anything about the squabbles between the 4th century Nicene Branch and Arian Branch Christians? Yeah, the Nicenes won by majority decree, book burnings, executions and the like.

But I fail to see how that makes them any more sound doctrinally than the defeated Arians. Notwithstanding that I find a few things wrong with Arian branch theology as well.

Nor do I see how taking literally repeated scriptural references to Jesus being the only begotten son of God somehow makes him less than God.

Meanwhile, I notice both of your identified cult sects (Mormons and JWs) which you so heartily condemn are still very much standing their ground against homosexual marriage whereas the Nicene mainline protestant sects have, for the most part, surrendered to the gay mafia. Said surrender really makes them little different than the "cafeteria Catholics" like Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden.

Vigilanteman,
Like your scree name.

You wrote:

“Did you ever read anything about the squabbles between the 4th century Nicene Branch and Arian Branch Christians? Yeah, the Nicenes won by majority decree, book burnings, executions and the like.”

Yes, extensive study of Church history that included original sources, church historians and classroom. Your summary misses that Arianism was a false understanding of the nature of God and was condemned by the Church. During the early centuries, the Church was under attack from all kinds of heresies that were being presented as truth. The Church had to come together and publicly state what the Apostle’s teachings and understanding of Christianity actually was and what it was not.

“But I fail to see how that makes them any more sound doctrinally than the defeated Arians. Notwithstanding that I find a few things wrong with Arian branch theology as well.”

If so, this is evidence that you should do more study theologically and then historically. If you start with false teaching and bring it into the Scriptures, your premise defines the conclusion. That is eisogesis FRiend. Start with the Bible apart from the teachings of Mormonism.

“Nor do I see how taking literally repeated scriptural references to Jesus being the only begotten son of God somehow makes him less than God.”

Here it appears that your problem is understanding the theological term “Only Begotten Son of God.’ Mormons look at all of Scripture from an earthly perspective. Again, when you are entering the room, you are carrying a curelom with you. Leave him outside the door and study what is said - instead of looking for what you were taught. I mean that in the kindest way.

“Meanwhile, I notice both of your identified cult sects (Mormons and JWs) which you so heartily condemn are still very much standing their ground against homosexual marriage”

They are right to do so. That does not make them right theologically when they pervert the image of God. JWs are hard workers. A great ethic. That does not make their perversion of Christ valid. Mormons are (largely) nice and I’ve had a number of friends and business acquaintances that are mormon. That does not make their bad theology correct.

“whereas the Nicene mainline protestant sects have, for the most part, surrendered to the gay mafia. Said surrender really makes them little different than the “cafeteria Catholics” like Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden.”

God is perfectly capable of “taking away the lamp” from Churches that have died. Of course Churches like that no longer have Biblical Standards. God warned us against this and He will judge them.

That has nothing to do with the perversion of the image of God by cults or by “mainline denominations”.

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