Southern Baptists: Agree to Disagree over Calvinism

The Washington Post ^ | 6/11/13 | Adelle M. Banks

[marshmallow]

Can’t we all just get along?

That was the question that Southern Baptists, torn between Calvinists and non-Calvinists, seemed to be asking as they opened their two-day annual meeting in Houston.

Frank Page, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, created a 19-member advisory committee that produced a report in time for the meeting called “Truth, Trust and Testimony.”

Southern Baptists have been divided over Calvinism since their denomination began in 1845, but Page said Monday (June 10) that disagreements had reached a tipping point.

“The truth is, I see an anti-Calvinism now that frightens me; it’s a vitriol that is nasty,” he said, adding he also has friends who were concerned about “extreme Calvinists.” ‘’So it was my opinion that we need to deal with this. . Trust is hitting a new low.”

Calvinism, based on the teachings of 16th-century Protestant Reformer John Calvin, differs from traditional Baptist theology in key aspects, particularly on the role of human free will and whether God chooses only the “elect” for salvation.

The 3,200-word report calls for mutual respect among the differing factions, saying opponents should talk to each other rather than about each other, especially on social media. Churches and would-be pastors also need to be honest about whether they embrace or shun Calvinism, it said.

[job]

“Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world...” to “Jesus loves some of the little children, but not all of the children of the world.” That is Calvinism. And it seems to go hand in hand with something called Lordship salvation wherein others, like Paul Washer, judge whether you really have made Jesus your Lord by your conduct, and if you are not up to Paul Washer’s specs, you are probably not getting in. Funny, in that everyone that believes in Calvinism just so happens to be part of the Elect. With all the billions of people in the world, aren’t the odds that at least one person who believes in predestination and the Elect chosen only to salvation were on the outside of that inner circle? Ya gotta think at least one person would say “yeah, I believe in Calvinism, but somehow I did not make the cut. Its really a shame, but what are you gonna do?”I have also heard that some churches try to teach calvinism by dumping a bunch of white (balls, socks, whatever) with one or two red ones, and teach young children, that the red ones represent those that God did not elect unto salvation. I think that necessarily damns infants who were not part of the elect to hell and damnation, demon babies. Its craziness that distracts people from God’s Word. “For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believeth in Him, shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life.” Plainly, God loves the world, not just the Elect, He gave His Son for the World, and “whosoever” that believes in Him shall be saved. Simple enough. Trying to twist that into something else is risking God’s wrath for preaching a false gospel.

[kjo]

Christians have become this government’s greatest enemy.

[metmom]

Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and in that all agree and have their unity. A true Christian’s identity is being in Christ, not in labels or denominational affiliation.

There doesn’t need to be absolute unity of doctrine for people to be saved. Catholicism doesn’t have it between the Roman rite, the Ukrainian rite, the EO, and many of the other splinter Catholic groups. For that matter, Catholicism has not even been consistent throughout its own history within itself.

It’s hypocritical that Catholicism tolerates differences of opinion and interpretation amongst its own rites and condemns it in other Christian groups.

The body of Christ is an organism, not an organization. It’s all believers of the church age regardless of time and location and denominational affiliation.

Obviously Catholics do not understand what the church really is.

[metmom]

That is Calvinism. And it seems to go hand in hand with something called Lordship salvation wherein others, like Paul Washer, judge whether you really have made Jesus your Lord by your conduct, and if you are not up to Paul Washer’s specs, you are probably not getting in.

I guess they'd have problems with Lot being called *righteous Lot* in 2 Peter.

[caww]

<....”The body of Christ” is an organism, not an organization....It’s all ‘believers’ of the church age regardless of time and location and denominational affiliation”....>

Yes indeed...but we also realize that body is being invaded, willingly and not, by those who mask as believers.

and this with reason.... Just as the World Nations are marching forward with the Global Agenda...so to are all the faiths being positioned....to do so they must be invaded by those in line with the Globalist Goals..which includes not so much the “people” as the faiths which produce the most revenyes they will one day control.

The Catholic church ...Mormons... and other giant organizations/ churches/ educational institutions/insurances/medical groups any and all that generate large revenues are being positioned now.

Whatever nations brings the most revenue sources and resources to the table will have the greater influences and seats at the Global table.....and that is the push which is on..and frankly in view for eyes who want to see.

[Pan_Yan]

In the absence of any divinely instituted human ecclesiastical authority with competence to rule in this matter, this is the inevitable result. Either this or a rupture.

Based on this comment and how thinly it is tied to the article I just assumed you were one of those useless and graceless flame war "Christians" who are the reason most decent people stay away from the Religion Forum. But then I looked at your strange, strange posting history. You are some kind of weird Catholic Religion Forum article-posting seldom-commenting troll.

[Revolting cat!]

It’s the nature of the Beast, isn’t it?

[DesertRhino]

“I guess we’ll get into that BASIC thing (Brothers And Sisters In Christ) when we’re all in the DHS prisons together in adjoining cells. Staring around in bewilderment saying, “Whoa. What happened?”

I agree with your sentiment 100%, with one small caveat. I am always standing in slack jawed amazement at people who can accept on any level being incarcerated in a DHS prison (presumably just for being a normal American)

Aside from the sole exception of awakening in captivity after having been knocked senseless by a wound or explosion like a Japanese soldier on Tarawa; a red blooded American should die in a pile of brass rifle casings, with a fixed bayonet, and after having made it a very bitter and sad day for the Nazis that came for them.

No prisons in our future.

And any DHS prison in an avoidable Amerofacist future had better review the story of the raid on Cabanatuan.

[metmom]

Based on this comment and how thinly it is tied to the article I just assumed you were one of those useless and graceless flame war "Christians" who are the reason most decent people stay away from the Religion Forum. But then I looked at your strange, strange posting history. You are some kind of weird Catholic Religion Forum article-posting seldom-commenting troll.

You noticed that, too, eh?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you, metmom, for giving me this opportunuty to give you more accurate information about the structure of the Catholic Church.

Don't fall into the common mistake of thinking that these 22 Churches, which are united in doctrine, faith and morals, represent different faiths or divergent dogmas somehow cobbled together. They do not. These 22 comprise one Church, each one having developed along distinct linguistic, geographical and cultural lines. They are all Catholic, they are all in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, but they are not all called "Roman Catholic."

Those who think they represent disunity in dogma are quite misinformed. Customary ritual, style, emphasis, culture with its impacts on philosophical and poetic language, and so forth: these are a legitimate diversity. There is no divergence, however, in our shared patrimony, the truths of the Faith handed down to us by the Apostles.

This applies to the Churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome (as illustrated on this chart.) They are to be distinguished from the Orthodox Church, who are not in ecclesial communion.

You yourself are a member of the Church cata-holos (according to the whole) if you are a baptized Christian.

So there you go. Let's pray for each other and be grateful. Blessings upon you from Christ our Lord.

[Mr Rogers]

http://evangelicalarminians.org/

[Mrs. Don-o]

Excellent reference to Cabanatuan.

[marshmallow]

Based on this comment and how thinly it is tied to the article I just assumed you were one of those useless and graceless flame war "Christians" who are the reason most decent people stay away from the Religion Forum. But then I looked at your strange, strange posting history. You are some kind of weird Catholic Religion Forum article-posting seldom-commenting troll.

My comment is perfectly tied to the article. The conundrum in which the Southern Baptists now find themselves is precisely because there is no authority of last resort which can rule on disputes such as this. Ditto for other Protestant denominations. All that's left is "let's agree to disagree". There van be no nonnegotiable, definitive ruling which can settle disputes like this.

None.

Feeble attacks on me and my posting history will not change this one iota. If any comments are irrelevant to the subject matter of the article, they belong to you.

Feel free to address the issue of ecclesiatical authority if you can stop whining for a moment.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

man, you post articles - that’s so weird. Strange strange even.

[Pan_Yan]

” Feel free to address the issue of ecclesiatical authority if you can stop whining for a moment.”

Na, there’s few things in this world more pointless that getting into a pissing match with someone who enjoys pissing matches.

[PeterPrinciple]

There is a test to get into heaven but being right on these points is not one of them...............................

[marshmallow]

Na, there’s few things in this world more pointless that getting into a pissing match with someone who enjoys pissing matches.

Truth matters.

That's never pointless.

Unfortunate that you have nothing of substance to offer.

[Pan_Yan]

Unfortunate that you have nothing of substance to offer.

Based on the fact that you almost never respond to people who post on your articles it would appear you aren't actually seeking any kind of meaningful discussion. Therefore substance would be wasted on you.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “With all due respect, God says there is.” <<

.
My point is that God has not said that there is.

If you think there are divergent truths in God’s word, then it is imcumbant upon you to show where those divergent truths are. Your “example” fails miserably.

Yeshua’s kingdom has come in part here on Earth, except to those that place impossible restraints on what part of his word they will believe. Evangelism is also progressing here on Earth, and it is in no way in conflict with his kingdom.

The only kingdom facet that we presently lack is an incorruptible body. Our present bodies are subject to the effects of the willful sins that we commit, but do not confess and repent.

There is one word and it cannot be divided except by rejection thereof. The fact that you do not accept his kingdom is no reason that it should or will be denied to anyone else.

If its not for you, its not for you.

[metmom]

Unfortunate that you have nothing of substance to offer.

Now that's funny right there.

Seems that having on dialogue on threads one posts constitutes *No Substance*.