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To: jjotto
"For example, the claim that the “Jewish canon” was determined at “Jamnia” is at very best, a “hypothetical”. It’s a Roman Catholic fantasy or worse."

Note that the article contains the following footnote:

5 There is debate as to whether the Council of Jamnia actually "closed" the Jewish canon because debate continued among Jews for hundreds of years afterward as to which books should be included or excluded. Even into the 3rd century A.D., controversy surrounded Ezekiel, Proverbs, Ruth, Esther, and others

The point is that the Jewish canon was not fixed until well into the Christian area--possibly even after the Christian canon (consisting of all 74 books) was fixed in the 4th century. At Jamnia, the Jews there were mostly concerned with identifying and rejecting what was NOT Scripture-- including some writings that are now part of the New Testament. The Christian Church, already in existence, could not be bound by Jewish teaching authority.

19 posted on 06/16/2013 5:31:53 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis

“First of all, the Septuagint manuscripts are all of Christian origin from the fourth and fifth centuries as opposed to Alexandria in Egypt. We do not know for certain that the Septuagint itself included the books of the Apocrypha as canonical Scripture. Secondly, as already mentioned, there were books in these manuscripts that were never considered canonical by the Jews or the Church, in particular, 3 and 4 Maccabees. Therefore, just because a book was listed in the manuscripts did not mean it was canonical. It simply means that these books were read in the Church. This likely parallels the general perspective of many of the fathers of the early Church. During the Church age, certain books were designated canonical while others were called ecclesiastical, but all were grouped together without distinction. The ecclesiastical books were useful for reading and edification but were not authoritative for the establishing of doctrine. This position was held by both Athanasius and Cyril of Jerusalem, who used the Septuagint, but were careful to exclude the Apocryphal books from the status of canonical Scripture. This was also the practice of the Jews of Palestine. While rejecting Tobit and Judith as canonical, they still read them. This is seen from the statements of Josephus who used the Septuagint but excluded the Apocryphal books from canonical status.”

“The theory that an open canon was closed at the Synod of Jamnia about AD 90 goes back to Heinrich Graetz in 1871, who proposed (rather more cautiously than has since been the custom) that the Synod of Jamnia led to the closing of the canon. Though others have lately expressed hesitations about the theory, its complete refutation has been the work of J.P. Lewis and S.Z. Leiman. The combined results of their investigations is as follows:

(a) The term ‘synod’ or ‘council’ is inappropriate. The academy at Jamnia, established by Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai shortly before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, was both a college and a legislative body, and the occasion in question was a session of the elders there.
(b) The date of the session may have been as early as AD 75 or as late as AD 117.
(c) As regards the disputed books, the discussion was confined to the question whether Eccelsiastes and the Song of Songs (or possibly Eccelsiastes alone) make the hands unclean, i.e. are divinely inspired.
(d) The decision reached was not regarded as authoritative, since contrary opinions continued to be expressed throughout the second century.46

As Bruce confirms, the Council of Jamnia changed nothing relative to the canonical status of any of the Old Testament books:

So far as the scriptures are concerned, the rabbis at Jamnia introduced no innovations; they reviewed the tradition they had received and left it more or less as it was. It is probably unwise to talk as if there was a Council or Synod of Jamnia which laid down the limits of the Old Testament canon.47

The theory of Jamnia is unsupportable because the Apocrypha was never considered for the canon. It was never even discussed.”

http://christiantruth.com/articles/Apocryphapart1.html


27 posted on 06/16/2013 6:31:34 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: fidelis

Doesn’t Rabbinical Judaism have a 3-part “descending” view of the Canon? Torah, Neviim and Ketubim (Books of Law, Prophets and Writings) are not held in the same esteem. Torah is preeminent, the Prophets less significant, and Writings a further step down.

Correct me if I am wrong.


47 posted on 06/16/2013 9:34:30 PM PDT by cookcounty (IRS = Internal Revenge Service.)
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