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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
So while the Romans insist that the Primacy of Peter refers to the Bishop of Rome, Gregory applies the Primacy of Peter to ALL the major Bishops of the See. They are, in effect, ALL the Church of Peter, and possess his chair and authority.

This is an example of playing fast-and-loose with the truth. Gregory never says that Alexandria and Antioch possess the same authority as Rome, but only that they have apostolic dignity deriving from the Apostle. And he says *that* only in a personal letter to another bishop, not something that would ever be a vehicle for a solemn magisterial exercise.

This whole silly claim grows out of Gregory's rejection of the title "universal bishop" (actually, "universal patriarch") claimed by John the Faster, Patriarch of Constantinople. The idea seems to be that Gregory didn't think he was the Pope, or didn't understand the Papacy to mean any sort of universal authority, or something.

Which is very odd, because Gregory denounced the Patriarch of Constantinople -- another bishop! -- as "antichrist" for assuming the title "Ecumenical Patriarch" (in Latin, "patriarcha universalis"). How could he have done that if he thought of himself as just another bishop among equals?

Gregory also wrote at the time that the see of Constantinople was subject to Rome, and that EVERY see was subject to Rome "if any fault is found among bishops", but equal "according to humility" otherwise.

The solution to the problem is really pretty simple. Gregory concluded that "patriarcha universalis" meant that John believed he was the only real bishop in the world (something that the Greek term "ecumenical patriarch" probably doesn't bear). This is not Catholic belief and never has been, hence Gregory's objection.

28 posted on 06/06/2013 8:45:22 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

“This is an example of playing fast-and-loose with the truth. Gregory never says that Alexandria and Antioch possess the same authority as Rome”


Yes he does:

“Wherefore though there are many apostles, yet with regard to the principality itself the See of the Prince of the apostles alone has grown strong in authority, which in three places is the See of one... Since then it is the See of one, and one See, over which by Divine authority three bishops now preside”

“And, though special honour to myself in no wise delights me, yet I greatly rejoiced because you, most holy ones, have given to yourselves what you have bestowed upon me.”

Why do you think the Romanist websites who quote him omit these lines entirely? Cuz they don’t say what they say?

“Which is very odd, because Gregory denounced the Patriarch of Constantinople — another bishop! — as “antichrist” for assuming the title “Ecumenical Patriarch” (in Latin, “patriarcha universalis”).”


From the Catechism:

882 ... the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.”402 “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”403

883 “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” As such, this college has “supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff.”404

Looks like a direct match to me.


31 posted on 06/06/2013 8:52:53 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Campion

“Gregory also wrote at the time that the see of Constantinople was subject to Rome, “


Somehow I missed this the first time I saw your post, which is a shame since it is so brazen. The name ‘Rome’ doesn’t even occur in the letter to John. You can look all you want, it’s not there. When the topic of the “Apostolic See” comes up, Gregory says:

“Was it not the case, as your Fraternity knows, that the prelates of this Apostolic See which by the providence of God I serve, had the honour offered them of being called universal by the venerable Council of Chalcedon. But yet not one of them has ever wished to be called by such a title, or seized upon this ill-advised name, lest if, in virtue of the rank of the pontificate, he took to himself the glory of singularity, he might seem to have denied it to all his brethren.”

He refers to the “prelates,” in the plural, and the Apostolic See, as you know, is defined as One see in Three places over which three Bishops sit, as Gregory defines in his letter to the Bishop of Alexandria.


39 posted on 06/06/2013 9:28:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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