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To: American Constitutionalist
True, there is much if not an infinite amount of knowledge that God knows that we do not know. I do believe though that the Bible teaches that God is a God of logic and truth and that the knowledge God has revealed to us is logical, rational and free from contradiction.

The problem I have with the idea that God regenerates us, which then in turn causes saving faith is that His choice in this matter has to be at least in part random or capricious. Surely God considers everything He knows when making any decision even if He has predetermined to discount certain categories of His knowledge in making a particular decision, such as whether or not to regenerate a person. In my limited mind there are only five potential categories of knowledge God has of individuals on which to base His decision regarding regeneration. 1) Our sin and sinful flesh, 2) good works 3) our amoral qualities such as our physical appearance 4) expediency and 5) faith. Clearly the Bible teaches that our good works are inadequate and He does not choose based on our physical appearance.

God could choose the worst sinners of which Paul and I are chief, but clearly our experience tells us that God doesn't always choose the worst sinners over lessor sinners so that cannot be His basis for choosing. And with respect to expediency, surely a sovereign, omnipotent God never cuts corners. This leaves only faith as the basis for His decision unless His choice is completely random.

Faith seems to me to be both the logical answer and the clear Bible teaching as well. Faith is not a work and has no merit as Paul convincingly argues in Romans 4:1-8. In fact we all know this intuitively as Christians, because the act of placing our faith in Christ is an admission of our guilt, our sinfulness, and our compete inability to save ourselves and that we have no appeal other than the promise of Christ's saving work. Saving faith is the antithesis of merit and therefore can be God's reason for choosing who is regenerated and consequently saved while preserving His grace and mercy and justice.

30 posted on 06/05/2013 1:03:45 AM PDT by Pres Raygun (It's the economy stupid.)
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To: Pres Raygun

“The problem I have with the idea that God regenerates us, which then in turn causes saving faith is that His choice in this matter has to be at least in part random or capricious.”


The only conclusion one can gleam from the scripture is that God’s decision is unknown. We cannot conclude so blasphemous a thought that it was random or capricious:

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Why it is He ordained us to produce fruit, and that our fruit should remain, is totally in the mind of God. But that He has done it for His own “grace and purpose” cannot be denied.

“This leaves only faith as the basis for His decision unless His choice is completely random.”


The question then becomes, “Why did you have faith, and why did others not have faith?” If the answer is, “because I had better sense, I sought when they did not, I responded as the righteous man, in my humility and fear of God, and those who believe not are more obstinate than I,” then, ultimately, you were responsible for your own salvation. You chose Jesus Christ. Christ, however, is quite clear. We did not choose Him, He chose us:

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And outside of God’s will, no man can believe in Christ:

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Notice He says “Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given... of my Father” as an explanation for “But there are some of you that believe not.” The Jews did not disbelieve because they refused to be as righteous as you in choosing Christ. They disbelieved because they did not receive it from the Father.


32 posted on 06/05/2013 1:25:10 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Pres Raygun
Well said.
From what I believe is that even faith is a gift from God and the bible tells us that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.
Where the bible is not clear on things or understanding we will just have to believe it and take it by faith.
The doctrine of predestination tells us that we were chosen in Christ even before the foundations of this world.
This was even before anyone was created, formed, and before the fall of man.
34 posted on 06/05/2013 3:18:40 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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