Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Steelfish

The five solas deal with doctrine, so you can dispense with any notion that I only spoke of personal sin in one of posts.

Second, you have already stated, and I have already agreed that there are unfortunate emanations within the progeny of the Protestant Reformation, so your “rerun” of the same seems somewhat redundant.

You, however, seem charmingly oblivious to the slightest of deviations or errors or bad apples within the Church of Rome. All angels, correct? (But we all know better.) I am looking for a bit more candor from you in this area, but neither am I holding my breath.

Also, I suggest you please do not try — as you did in your post — to slip Romanist “tradition” into this discussion. Or, at least do not expect me to buy it. That is the very point of Sola Scriptura. Sorry, not discussing the “traditions” of Rome, as they are not salvific, no matter how many Popes and Church Doctors put their approval on them.

No: The Jews gave us the Old Testament. (The Apocrypha are Jewish gifts, as well, though only Deuterocanonical in status.) No work for the Fathers there. Neither were the Books of the New Testament “chosen” by the Church Fathers. They were recognized and received by the Church collective in the early centuries of the Church.

Moreover, your haughty tone regarding Catholic prowess in scholarship is somewhat amusing. Has the Church of Rome been abundantly blessed in the past 1700 years with brilliant scholars — Augustine and Aquinas at the top of the list? But, of course. However, Rome hardly has a monopoly on theological scholarly excellence.

You are perhaps ignorant of the not insignificant scholarly attainments of men such as Luther and Calvin in the Reformation Era, the writings of the Puritans on both sides of the Atlantic, later Colonial preachers (see Jonathan Edwards), the English Baptists (see John Gill), various Dutch Reformed scholars, and in modern times, men such as Benjamin B. Warfield, to give the most cursory of listings. And, if we wish to speak of hymnody, after giving the Catholics a head start of over 1100 years, the Protestants have fairly beaten the socks off the Catholics since 1500. Think Luther. Think Watts. Think the Wesley brothers. And so on.

Granted, Joel Osteen probably has never heard of most of the scholars we are discussing, but Joel Osteen is hardly the avatar of Protestantism as followed by me or many like me.

Finally, the fact that many big names have become Catholics — while true — is not in and of itself necessarily an argument for Rome’s claims to be the “One True Church,” as the New Testament makes it clear that the Gospel is for sinners of low estate, as well as high. to be fair, however, indeed Rabbis have also become Protestants. The great physicist, Isaac Newton, was a Protestant believer. There have no doubt also been Protestant literary greats, Nobel laureates, poets, sculptors, painters, philosophers, mathematicians, astronomers, and, yes, martyrs and saints.

Have a nice evening.


141 posted on 06/02/2013 9:35:54 PM PDT by man_in_tx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]


To: man_in_tx

Luther and Calvin would be spinning in their graves to know the multitude of spin-offs that have resulted from their breakaway from Church tradition. The Bible did not fall from the skies. It was a set of books formally authorized by those who had the power to authorize, the Catholic Church. Not some loose assortment of believers as you appear to imply.

An example of early Church traditions if found in St. Ignatius’ work.

St. Ignatius became the third bishop of Antioch, succeeding St. Evodius, who was the immediate successor of St. Peter. He heard St. John preach when he was a boy and knew St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna. Seven of his letters written to various Christian communities have been preserved. Eventually, he received the martyr’s crown as he was thrown to wild beasts in the arena.

Below is one of St. Ignatius’ letters:

“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.” [”Letter to the Smyrnaeans”, paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.]


144 posted on 06/02/2013 9:43:38 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson