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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Yeah, we’ve been going back and forth about this ad nauseam. Mary is the exemption. Gabriel said she was “full of grace”.


775 posted on 06/01/2013 3:28:08 PM PDT by RPTMS
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To: RPTMS

“Yeah, we’ve been going back and forth about this ad nauseam. Mary is the exemption. Gabriel said she was “full of grace”.”


Actually, this is the first time we’ve gone over it.

There is no exception:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

All have sinned. Not “except Mary,” it’s all of humanity. If Paul believed Mary was sinless and an intercessor between us and an angry Christ, they probably would have mentioned it as often as your Popes do today.

What do you propose the phrase “full of grace” actually means, assuming it was an accurate translation? Does it mean that Mary was filled up with grace from God... and therefore this must mean she is sinless? Does it mean she was a gracious and kind person... which therefore makes her more righteous than every other gracious and kind person in the world? Does it mean she was highly favored? Upon what basis do you read “full of grace” as “sinless” when the scripture says “there is not a just man on Earth who does what is right, and sins not.” And again, in one of John’s epistle, “if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

FYI, that’s the translation wrought from the Vulgate. The real phrase “full of grace” only occurs here:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It is literally full “pleres” of grace “Charis.”

The phrase used in Luke 1:28 is the same one translated “made approved” in Eph1:6. Luke 30, two verses later, confirm this view:

Luk 1:30 .. “thou hast found favor with God.”

“heurisko” (found) “charis” (favor) with God.


788 posted on 06/01/2013 3:50:13 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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