[HarleyD]

The problem we have is that we have an over inflated sense of self worth. We think like Laban that if God will avenge Cain, He'll do so much more for us. There is a piety in us that think that God really, really needs us and wants to have fellowship with us. The Jews thought like this during Jeremiah's time even though they had stock the temple with idols. God loved them. He didn't really care if they baked cakes to the queen of heaven. It was a way to appease everyone and, hey, it was fun. Jeremiah was a crazy old coot that wanted them to betray the king and surrender to Babylonia. Surely God wouldn't bring His wrath on the "chosen" people.

There is a reason why God constantly refers to us in scripture as "perverted", "wicked", "unrighteous", "adulterous", "evil", on and on and on. It isn't because it's old school because Christ Himself referred to us this way. So did the writers of the New Testament. Nor should it be looked at as God was really, really angry and didn't know what He was saying. Or that He's a grouch. Rather it is an objective analysis of precisely what we are. We are unrighteous. We are evil. We are perverted. God is perfectly right and very correct in calling us these things because that is what we are. Most of us just don't like to hear it as your post indicates. And even after we're saved we don't like to think about ourselves in these terms. But Peter knew that we could slip into our old habits and become "murderers" or, just as bad, "gossipers".

The only reason that we come to Christ is because God opened up our eyes and ears to see and hear the truth about our sinful nature. But if we can't understand this relationship, if we can't understand our wickedness and our need of a Savior, then we need to question whether we're saved at all. If we don't understand that we're evil, then what is the purpose of even needing a Savior? Quite frankly, this is what repentance is all about-wanting to be healed from our unrighteousness. And the only way we understand that we are evil, is that God reveals it to us. He brings us to repentance. This is the basic principle of Christianity-understanding and turning away from our wickedness. Not perfectly, but a little bit at a time. And Christians are more than happy to receive the Lord's discipline because this is how we know that we're loved by God.

But we must recognize our sinfulness and cry out to God to be healed.

Psa 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried to you for help, and you have healed me.

Psa 30:3 O LORD, you have brought up my soul from Sheol; you restored me to life from among those who go down to the pit.

Psa 30:4 Sing praises to the LORD, O you his saints, and give thanks to his holy name.

Psa 30:5 For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning.

Joy comes in the morning.

[johngrace]

I have met too many people who believe in "once saved always saved' while cheating on wife. Sorry you definitely have to live the life. It is all in there to live the life. This kind of thinking has ruined many lives. I have seen it time and time again. I think the whole country has been ruined by these pusher of this "garbage".

Please do not give any "well there were not saved in the first -place."

No disrespect to people here on this forum. I believe most live the life. I have private discussions with many at times. There are people who have believed this wording that live the life but too many have been ruined in all the churches. The modern tv church has made it look too easy. It is sad.

Lets just say a few "magic' words and we are saved period. This is from the pit. Read the bible in context.

Peace In Christ.