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To: DaveMSmith
There is no reason to defend the Pope on this because what he said was correct. He didn't "mispeak" or carelessly "speak off the cuff" "The Vatican" in no way "corrected" the Pope, because there was nothing to correct. Instead, it clarified the Pope's statement for people (including the media and many people on this thread) who do not know the difference between REDEMPTION and SALVATION.

We are all REDEEMED. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross paid the price for man's sin, closed the breach between man and God, was sufficient to make salvation possible for all.

SALVATION is only for those who accept the grace of God made available because of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. Even if one who, through no fault of their own, has never heard the true Gospel places their trust in God to the extent that God has revealed Himself to them, CAN (not WILL) be saved.

Basically, redemption is collective, while salvation is individual. Christ redeemed humanity collectively from slavery to sin and from the debt of punishment that mankind, as a whole, owed due to sin. Every person, Christian or non-Christian, is redeemed because he is a member of the human race. Salvation is the application of redemption to individuals. A person can choose to reject the graces won for him by Christ even though he has been redeemed.

So, to recap:

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION

Get that fact straight and there is no problem with anything the Pope said.

40 posted on 05/27/2013 8:35:42 AM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis; Salvation

I hadn’t thought about the distinction in decades if ever but I do believe you folks are correct. There was no error in his statement.

Personally, I believe that salvation can be obtained through the Christian community, not just the Catholic Church per se. I feel the larger “church” IS the Christian community including the Catholic Church. If this were not the case why would the Catholic Church recognize Protestant baptisms? Guess I am more liberal on this one issue out of thousands.


69 posted on 05/27/2013 9:49:42 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: fidelis

True. Fr. Rosica was attempting to clarify the Pope’s comments, not correcting him. Unfortunately, Fr. Rosica lost a lot of credibility with me when he referred to “so-called “ original sin.

It’s great that Fr. Rosica explained the difference between redemption and salvation according to Catholic teaching, but it would have made much more sense if the Pope did what would be the most natural thing to do which would be to include a reference to salvation when mentioning redemption. Those two go hand in hand. But he did not. Why?

And nowhere in the official “clarification” did he explain why the Pope called atheists “first class Children of God” when Catholic Teaching states that Baptism makes us Children of God. For me, that’s the bigger issue in all that he said.

Can we have a clarification of the clarification? LOL


97 posted on 05/27/2013 3:25:52 PM PDT by piusv
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