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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
" To pray to a created being, rather than the creator as taught in scripture, is essentially to give to them the honor of being a savior, a mediator, and a God. "

No it isn't. Where did you get that idea?

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" It basically says that this person, a spiritual being up in heaven, is capable of hearing your prayers (and every prayer sent to it) from all over the world, which basically makes them, in effect, omnipresent and omniscient. "

No it doesn't. You can only hear ANYTHING AT ALL because God makes it possible for you to hear it. God (who created and controls "time" and "sound") is the Omniscient One, the Omnipresent One, and the Omnipotent One who decides what you can hear, when you can hear it, and how much you can hear. Nothing is impossible for God.

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" Not only that, but it asserts that they are in greater favor than you are, despite the fact that all believers share in the imputed righteousness of Christ. "

No it doesn't. When the Bible tells us to "pray for one another" (James 5:16), it does not say that one or the other is better than the other one. Do you think if those who have overcome and are saved in heaven (such as the thief on the cross who made it to paradise and is with Our Lord) are still able to pray to God or not? If so, can God hear those prayers of that former thief?

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"From the Litany posted earlier:

'Holy Mother of God, Holy Virgin of virgins, Mother of the Church, Mother of divine grace, Mother most pure, Mother most chaste, Mother inviolate, Mother undefiled, Mother most amiable, Mother admirable, Mother of good counsel, Mother of mercy, Virgin most prudent, Virgin most powerful, Virgin most merciful, Virgin most faithful, Mirror of justice, Seat of wisdom, Mystical rose, Tower of David, Tower if ivory, Ark of the covenant, Gate of heaven, Morning star, Health of the sick, Refuge of sinners, Comfort of the afflicted, Help of Christians, Queen of Angels, Queen of Patriarchs, Queen of Prophets, Queen of Apostles, Queen of Martyrs, Queen of Confessors, Queen of Virgins, Queen of all Saints, Queen conceived without original sin, Queen assumed into heaven, Queen of the most holy Rosary, Queen of families, Queen of peace.'

So, who is being praised here? The creature, or the creator?"

The creature is being praised there obviously. (Do you see "worship her" in that litany of honor there anywhere? If so, you are seeing things that are not there.) Do you have kids? If so, do you ever praise them? Do you show honor to people (for example, do you show honor to your Mother and Father)? Do you know a text in the Bible where it tells you to never praise anybody, or show anybody honor, but to only praise God and only to show God honor?

Was Paul committing a sin when he praised various human beings (creatures) in his letters? (See, for one example, 1 Thessalonians 1:2-3 where it says, "We give thanks to God always for you all, constantly mentioning you in our prayers, remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.")

Jesus honored His Mother, and we should honor her too. Out of all the billions and billions and billions of human beings who have ever lived, God only chose one single one of them to have the extremely high honor and privilege to bear His Son, and it wasn't you, Puny, and it wasn't me.

God showed His special creature Mary great honor, and so should we, and we should be ever grateful that she said "yes". I strongly urge you to reconsider all of these things prayerfully.

185 posted on 05/28/2013 4:08:36 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ( http://www.catholic.com/ http://www.newadvent.org/ http://www.ewtn.com/)
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To: Heart-Rest

“No it isn’t. Where did you get that idea?”


Besides the scripture? Your religion:

“Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother.” (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

See post #114 for more.

“No it doesn’t. You can only hear ANYTHING AT ALL because God makes it possible for you to hear it.”


God does not make it possible to hear every prayer in the world, whether said or unsaid (in the mind), and the heart of the person praying, and to understand and process them billions at a time, since to do so would be to give the individual omnipresence and omniscience, which are attributes of the Deity. Not only that, but it usurps His place in the prayer life of Christians, as the scripture only tells us that we ought to approach God without fear in the name of Christ, and frequently, and in none of the teachings of prayer in scripture are we told to pray to a creature.

“No it doesn’t. When the Bible tells us to “pray for one another” (James 5:16), it does not say that one or the other is better than the other one”


In that event, you should be pleased to ask your friend to pray for you instead of involving yourself in a form of necromancy. I ask my friend to pray for me all the time, and my prayers are almost always answered when this is done, and miraculously too. There is no reason to disturb the rest of departed Christians, who are not more holy than any other Christian on Earth who has the imputed righteousness of Christ. Furthermore, your friend can hear you. The Christians in heaven cannot. The scripture says to ask our brothers and sisters to pray for you. It does not say, to sit before an altar of Mary, adorned with flowers and incense, on your knees, and beg for her help and protection.

“Do you have kids? If so, do you ever praise them?”


Sure, but I never say to a child “Oh all-holy ever-virgin kinsmen, thou protector of my life, my stronghold, my protection, my help, oh seat of wisdom and stayer of God’s hand, pray for us sinners!”


186 posted on 05/28/2013 4:20:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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