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To: Mrs. Don-o

“How does this make sense? My husband is living on this earth, “


Just because Mary is in heaven, doesn’t give to her the divine attributes of being omnipresent and omniscient on Earth, ever ready to run to help the individual who cries out to her. On the contrary, this is the exact role given to God in the scripture. She, like your husband, is still very much limited by what she is... a creature, and not God.

“As for the citizens of heaven: they hear by the capacities proper to their new state of being. Or do you suppose they are locked in padded cells and isolated in eternal deafness?”


I propose that their abilities are not in any way God-like, since there is only one being who can hear the thoughts and prayers of every individual on Earth. Nor is there any reason to go to such an individual in the first place, from the Biblical perspective.

“Even Jesus speaks of Lazarus and Father Abraham hearing the cries of the rich man in torment.”


Evidently they were within crying distance:

Luk 16:23-26 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. (26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

And notice also he says to “send Lazarus.” Supposedly, Lazarus does not need to be sent, since he is always mystically present with every Catholic believer, per your tagline.


180 posted on 05/28/2013 3:28:25 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
GPHuman: I have twice specifically and in detail rejected the erroneous idea that Mary is omnipresent and omniscient. You keep saying I believe what I do not believe, which is really an inattentive way to argue. Why should I waste the electrons for a third time? Good Lord, this is exasperating.

The error here, is that you apparently have no perspective which would allow you to appreciate that the Citizens of Heaven (saints and angels) have very high giftedness, which is still finite, and still always radically less than God's infinite capacity. You see no gradations, no differences. Many, many creatures can have dramatically more capacities than I do, and be much more spiritually gifted, and not be divine, just as an angel can have more powers and abilities than I do, without being divine.

Please reflect in the fact that omniscience, omnipresence, and infinity indicate an entirely different order of being, far above that of the creature. There is no comparison between what a saint, or angel, or archangel can do, and what God can do. Even if, say, Michael the Archangel can go from one end of the Universe to the other at the speed of thought, that does not make him divine. He would reject that with terrifying force: "Who is like God?"

Therefore I can say Mary, or Abraham, or even my guardian angel, can hear us from heaven, without saying these holy people are divine. Divine they are not. Servants they are. Gifted they are. God has done great things for them, holy is His Name.

Second, my dear brother, you said "Supposedly, Lazarus does not need to be sent, since he is always mystically present with every Catholic believer, per your tagline."

Is that what the tagline means toyou? Really? Can you not even acknowledge that it's a quote from the Book of Romans and no just some trifle of Mrs. Don-o's? What does this verse mean to you?

193 posted on 05/28/2013 5:44:00 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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