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To: daniel1212
So your liberal side is showing, in that you disagree with other RCs that the authority of pope is supreme, and he needs not the ratification of councils for his ex cathedra statements to be infallible, but they need his, and he cannot be deposed by them?

Liberal? I'm not even left enough to be called Republican.

Which Catholics think that the authority of the Pope is supreme? Name some.

87 posted on 05/11/2013 4:28:56 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Greetings_Puny_Humans; boatbums; Sir_Ed; metmom
So your liberal side is showing, in that you disagree with other RCs that the authority of pope is supreme, and he needs not the ratification of councils for his ex cathedra statements to be infallible, but they need his, and he cannot be deposed by them?

Liberal? I'm not even left enough to be called Republican.

I thought maybe you were one of those Catholics who believe stories like the tower of babel were fables, or that the authority of the Pope over councils and other bishops is not supreme.

Which Catholics think that the authority of the Pope is supreme? Name some

It would be more fitting to name Catholics even on FR who do not think that the authority of the Pope is supreme = "greatest in status, authority or power" over other bishops including cardinals.

In virtue of his office as supreme teacher and ruler of the faithful, the chief control of every department of the Church's life belongs to the pope. In this section the rights and duties which thus fall to his lot will be briefly enumerated. It will appear that, in regard to a considerable number of points, not merely the supreme control, but the whole exercise of power is reserved to the Holy See, and is only granted to others by express delegation. This system of reservation is possible, since the pope is the universal source of all ecclesiastical jurisdiction. Hence it rests with him to determine in what measure he will confer jurisdiction on bishops and other prelates. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

And as the CE and other sources further describe, as the one with supreme authority the pope has a multiplicity of powers uniquely reserved to him. This includes the fact that Ecumenical councils can only be called by a pope. If a pope dies in the middle of a council the council immediately loses its source of authority, and his successor must renew the council. All the bishop's powers, orders, jurisdiction, and membership in the council, come to them from above — directly from the pope. The bishop's power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff. The decisions of an ecumenical council do not become authoritative until approved by the pope. A council not only acting independently of the Vicar of Christ, but sitting in judgment over him, is unthinkable in the constitution of the Church. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm) "No council, not even Ecumenical, has authority to depose a Pope." (http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/CONSTANC.HTM) ` Popes are not bound by the decisions of ecumenical councils, nor by the mandate to implement a council's decisions.

Thus by any reasonable definition of supreme authority, the pope has this according to Rome.

The Second Vatican Council teaches that the Bishop of Rome, as Vicar of Christ, has supreme and universal power over the whole Church (cf. LG 22).

For its part, Vatican I (1870) cited the Council of Florence's definition (cf. DS 3060) and, after mentioning the Gospel texts (Jn 1:42; Mt 16:16f.; Jn 21:15f.), expresses the meaning of this power in further detail. The Roman Pontiff "does not only have the office of inspection and direction," but enjoys "full and supreme power of jurisdiction, not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and governance of the Church dispersed throughout the world" (DS 3064).

Some proposed that the Pope be simply an arbiter of conflicts between local churches or that he merely give a general direction to the autonomous activities of the churches and of Christians with his counsel and exhortation. This limitation, however, did not conform to the mission Christ conferred on Peter. Therefore, Vatican I emphasized the fullness of papal power and defined that it is not enough to recognize that the Roman Pontiff "has the principal role." One must admit instead that he "has all the fullness of this supreme power" (DS 3064). `

The Pope possesses this fullness personally, while the body of bishops, united under the Pope's authority, possesses it collegially.

..the Council underscores that the Pope's power "is ordinary and immediate over all the churches and over each and every member of the faithful" (DS 3064). It is ordinary, in the sense that it is proper to the Roman Pontiff by virtue of the office belonging to him and not by delegation from the bishops; it is immediate, because he can exercise it directly without the bishops' permission or mediation.

Vatican II speaks of the Bishop of Rome as "pastor of the entire Church," having "full, supreme and universal power" (LG 22). That power is "primacy over all, both pastors and faithful" (LG 22). "The individual bishops, insofar as their own discharge of their duty permits, are obliged to enter into a community of work among themselves and with the Successor of Peter...

The Council again says: "The bishops, faithfully recognizing the primacy and pre-eminence of their head, exercise their own authority for the good of their own faithful" (LG 22)... Everything, then, depends on the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, as the principle of unity and communion....Also confirmed was the Roman Pontiff's right "within the exercise of his own office to communicate freely with the pastors and flock of the entire Church," and this in regard to all rites (cf. DS 3060, 3062). - http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19930224en.html

The Pope is the Supreme Pontiff in all matters relating the Catholic Faith and the Catholic Church. He answers to no human; He answers to God alone. The cardinals and bishops, both individually and collectively, report to, and are subject to, the Pope. Prior to their consecration, each cardinal and each bishop must take an oath of fidelity and obedience to the Pope. Ecumenical councils can only be called by the Pope, and it is the subsequent approval of the Pope that makes the councils ecumenical. That action is the exercise of his office of supreme teacher and ruler of the Church. Its necessity results from the fact that no authority is commensurate with the whole Church except that of the Pope; he alone can bind all the faithful.

882. "The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.'[LG 23.] 'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.".

883. "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff. Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church, but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."

937. "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls."

Furthermore, a Pope serves until his death. He can not be declared unfit, declared too old, or forced to retire. Nor can he be fired or ousted by any one, or any group. The Pope, as the legitimate successor to Pope St. Peter, can not teach any error or heresy as he is infallible when speaking ex cathdra. It was Jesus who said to Peter: "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Cf. Matthew 16:19) - http://www.call2holiness.org/supremeauthority /SupremeAuthorityUntilDeath.html

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

"If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html

Indeed, while how to satisfactory define the role of popes remains a task, if Rome's understanding of the office of Peter as regards power and jurisdiction was the same as the EO's then you would not have EO opposition over Papal supremacy , even if each side ecumenically tolerates much.

Igumen Filipp Ryabykh, the deputy head of the MP Department for External Church Relations said,

"The fact that the Pope of Rome claims universal jurisdiction is simply contrary to Orthodox ecclesiology, which teaches that the Orthodox Church, whilst preserving unity of faith and church order, nevertheless consists of several [autocephalous] Local Churches."

169 posted on 05/11/2013 12:54:20 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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