“I am glad to continue this debate, and have been encouraged by lurkers, friends and family to patiently continue.”
You sure do like to talk about yourself a lot.
“You wouldn’t answer if you and your word are separate entities.”
The “Word” does not mean that Christ is merely a sound vibration. It would not describe Christ as distinct from the Father, and yet the same God as the Father, otherwise. You yourself confess that someone’s word is not separate from yourself. The Word that is God is also with God. It is an expression that depicts Christ as the image of God, the active and expressive power by which God reveals Himself to the world. Christ is similarly called “the light of the world,” “the way and the truth and the life,” “the resurrection,” “the door,” “the lamb;” and in Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the almighty.” Is Christ a number? Is Christ a physical door? Is Christ literally a lamb? All these words merely tell us Christ’s essential character, of which His chiefest characteristic is “God with us.” All are true, though you chop out the parts you do not like.
“No man hath seen God at any time; the only BEGOTTEN Son,”
You should capitalize the word “Only” as well, as it is fatal to your assumption. You assume that “begotten” means created. Yet, we are “begotten” through creation by your logic, and yet are not regarded as begotten at all, since Christ is the “only” one to have ever been begotten.
“God the Father has no beginning, unless maybe you know who created him.”
Neither was Christ:
Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
“Here is ‘plain reading’, direct from the Son, answering your ‘I AM’ argument:”
So the Father directed the Son to assert that He is the God of Moses, the Almighty “I am” who has always existed. Way to go Dad!
“From his beginning creation (the only begotten), the Son has always had the Father in him, and he in the Father (because he said so).”
The Son has always been in the Father, and the Father in the Son. That’s because they’re two members of the Trinity.
“The Holy Ghost “proceedeth from the Father”. You just can’t seem to grasp that fact.”
What are you talking about? I already asserted that myself. It’s pointless for you to keep spamming me with the same tired nonsense, and then ignoring everything that I say, forcing myself to repeat myself again and again.
I guess those Lurkers (Demons watching?) Friends and Family members like the torture that is repetition.
“(just cherry picking one verse out of it),”
What? Aren’t you the one who is cherry picking by saying that the Father is in the Son, as if that gives the Son right to call Himself God, but refusing to say the Son is in the Father, and both of them in us?
Your entire argument is based on the act of cherry picking. Though, I call it ‘wresting the scriptures unto damnation.”
“The cell phone at the far end is simply echoing my will. Lying to it, is lying to me.”
As blasphemous as this is, it’s already been firmly refuted. How does a cell phone have an independent identity of its user? “Baptizing them in the name of the Father, His cell phone, and His picture. And lo, I shall be with you always, even unto the roaming areas of the world, Amen.”
“Or this: How does a ‘trinitarian’ explain this:”
Actually, pretty sure I already responded to most of what you’ve written dozens of posts ago, probably multiple times too.
**You sure do like to talk about yourself a lot.**
LOL! Actually, your screen name tells me a lot about you.
I said, “You wouldn’t answer if you and your word are separate entities.”
And you still haven’t answered it.
**You yourself confess that someone’s word is not separate from yourself.**
Made in the image of God.
**The Word that is God is also with God. It is an expression that depicts Christ as the image of God, the active and expressive power by which God reveals Himself to the world. Christ is similarly called “the light of the world,” “the way and the truth and the life,” “the resurrection,” “the door,” “the lamb;” and in Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the almighty.” Is Christ a number? Is Christ a physical door? Is Christ literally a lamb? All these words merely tell us Christ’s essential character, of which His chiefest characteristic is “God with us.”**
Good comment, especially because you recognize that the Son is ‘the image of God’, NOT ‘God the image’. Because the Father is in him, and he is in the Father. That’s what he tries to tell you all through the book of John. Oh, and your ‘interpretation’ of 17:1-3 must still be in a holding pattern.
**Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.**
“..he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also”. Because......
**So the Father directed the Son to assert that He is the God of Moses, the Almighty “I am” who has always existed. Way to go Dad!**
Actually, that is not mocking me, but the Son, and his words, such as those from John 12:49,50.
**The Son has always been in the Father, and the Father in the Son. That’s because they’re two members of the Trinity.**
No, because the Son said that that is literally the relationship; the Father in him, giving everthing divine, whenever needed, doing the works. I gave you over 100 references pointing that out, but you prefer man-made terms and phrases: ‘trinity’, ‘God the Son, and ‘God the Holy Ghost’. By the way, you skipped right over that issue in my last post. Here it is again, and I’m giving you another opportunity to mock it:
The Holy Ghost “proceedeth from the Father”. The Son said that to be the case. John 15:26. And you still seem to think you have a better understanding than the inspired writers, who NEVER referred to the Holy Ghost(Spirit) as “God the Holy Ghost”, or the Son of God as “God the Son”. The phasing of those words in your approved fashion verily contradict the scriptures, and the proper definition of God. Example: Is it proper to define ‘St. Louis of Missouri’, or ‘Missouri the St Louis’?How about another: ‘Pacific Ocean of Planet Earth’, or ‘Planet Earth the Pacific Ocean’.
**As blasphemous as this is, it’s already been firmly refuted. How does a cell phone have an independent identity of its user?**
Would you want a cell phone that doesn’t relay the words of the source? The Son doesn’t have an indepentent DIVINE identity: “I and my FATHER are ONE”, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father”. The Son is the perfect audio and visual expression of the Father; which is what John told you in 1:18. BUT, the MAN Christ Jesus, had an independent SOUL and MIND of a man (”I thirst”), and tempted in all points, but able to overcome the world, BECAUSE........
Maybe you don’t like parables and similtudes, like the Son used regularly in getting his points across. “God......hath spoken to us by his Son”, who only spoke the words the Father told him to say.
**It’s pointless for you to keep spamming me with the same tired nonsense, and then ignoring everything that I say, forcing myself to repeat myself again and again.**
“Ignore everything that I say” Exaggerate much?? I use the ** to mark your words and then reply.
**Actually, pretty sure I already responded to most of what you’ve written dozens of posts ago, probably multiple times too.**
I’m REALLY sure you haven’t replied to the “same tired nonsense”....that for the FOURTH time, are questions that you have yet to answer in agreement or disagreement:
1. Are you and your word two separate and distinct persons? (we are made in the image of God aren’t we?) You say you’ve answered it, by using John 1:1. But you still didn’t answer the question.
2. Who’s greater: The Son says, “My Father, which is GAVE them me, is GREATER than ALL..”. 10:29; and “..for my Father is GREATER than I..”. 14:28.
3. Mat_28:19 “ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:..”. The greatest teacher of all gave the disciples that commandment, and they promptly went about baptizing in the name of JESUS. Now, first of all, note that he says ‘name’ in the singular, not ‘names’. ‘Son’ is a title. “thou shalt call his NAME Jesus”. Luke 1:21. Jesus Christ said that his name is not his own (John 5:43), And Heb. 1:4 says that he inheritted it. The apostles knew what they were doing when they baptized in the name of ‘Jesus’. Do you use his name in water baptism?
4. “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the FATHER will SEND in MY NAME...”. So, what name are YOU going to use to request the coming of the Holy Ghost?
5. AND........don’t forget Matthew 28:18; Jesus..spake...”All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in Earth” (that’s pretty much everywhere, and let’s see, who GAVE it unto him?......could it be the Father that dwelleth in him, and he in the Father?).
6. Jesus praying to the Father (17:1), “And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, ........AND........JESUS CHRIST, whom THOU hast SENT.” John 17:3. So, do you disagree with the Son, who declares the Father to be the “ONLY TRUE GOD”? (That’s some more ‘plain reading’; just like ‘the ‘Father in me, and I in the Father’)..
And you didn’t deal with this:
Food for thought: 15:1 A vine (Son) and a husbandman (the Father). The husbandman plants the vine and cares for it, etc. The ‘husbandman’ gave the ‘vine’ it’s start, provides all it’s needs, and has the power to prune or even kill the vine. Of itself, the vine has no such power.
Or this: How does a ‘trinitarian’ explain this: “But of that day and hour knoweth....my Father only” (the 2nd and 3rd ‘persons of God’ don’t know??)?