**(I’m not sure why you needed time to know how to reply, when this post is nearly identical to what you’ve told me before!)**
I guess you didn’t read this intro: Three days on the road and I finally made it home last night (little play on the old ‘six days on the road’ song). The wife kept me briefed, via our ‘dumb’ phones,..
My delay responding was because of three days straight of OTR (over the road) driving. I just performed another three day run. I don’t have a smart phone, or a laptop. I suppose we could share personal names and email or snailmail addresses, so I could send you a copy of my most recent cell phone bill, copies of my driver’s log, or even my dispatcher’s ph#.
I don’t need time to respond, just need the access. I was trinitarian for my first 28 yrs. Member of a VERY conservative country presbyterian church. A very well educated congregation, and rooted in the Calvinist doctrine.
We considered ourselves more devoted to the Word than the ‘liberal’ leaning presbies in town. When one of my younger brothers moved to Colorado, met some Oneness folks, he soon obeyed Acts 2:38, and was sending me tapes and literature on the doctrine. I listened and read, and then set forth to correct his ‘error’.
I had to save my brother, I thought. I had all of the same trinitarian arguments to throw at him, but I couldn’t deny that the fact that the Son made it quite clear that all power, every thing, every word, every work, was GIVEN to him BY the Father. So no, sorry to disappoint you, your points used to be mine as well. I can answer them quite quickly (I’ve been Oneness for almost 31 years now), when the line of communication is available.
**We’ve been over this before. Christ continues: “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.”**
Well, I guess we need to go over it again, because it seems that you forgot this reply to your earlier quoting of John 14:20:
Notice Jesus Christ said, “AT THAT DAY”. What day?...the day when people are filled with his Spirit (aka Comforter, aka Holy Ghost).
He started out explaining how he is the Father’s express image in divinity: “..he that hath seen me hath seen the Father (9)....the Father that dwelleth IN ME, he doeth the works.” (10); but the Son in humanity: “..the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself...”.(10). “..and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me”. (24). He of his own self could do nothing. Why?...because the man Christ Jesus was not sent to do his own will, but the Father that sent him. John 5:30. But, back to ‘AT THAT DAY”.....
The Christ said that the Comforter will not come unless he goes away. 16:7. AND told the disciples in 14:17 “ye know him for he dwelleth with you, and shall be IN you. “I will not leave you comfortless: I will COME to you.” (18). How?...as the Comforter.
He had to go away physically, because he couldn’t abide physically with ‘whosover will’ constantly. It’s not physically possible. He had to return as the Comforter so that ‘whosoever will’ can receive of him, and because of his being poured out, “..the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” 14:12
**Thus, your proof text that every scripture where Christ is called God is simply referring to the Father “in Him” simply doesn’t fly, because Christ here is only telling us of the special unity we have with Christians with our God.**
No, the Christ is not ‘only telling us of a special unity’. There’s a whole passage there where the Lord is telling them of the coming Comforter, saying the “..ye know him; for he dwelleth WITH you, and SHALL (future) be IN you.” 14:17
He goes on: “I will not leave you comfortless: I will COME TO YOU.........AT THAT DAY...”. He’s telling them of the baptism of the Holy Ghost; which he commanded them to receive, and later tells them to wait for it in Jerusalem. It was not going to be poured out until he bodily departed. AT THAT DAY they too would discover the sensation of being filled with the Holy Ghost (although only the Son is filled without measure; ‘all power’). That’s how we become like the Son, fully realizing what it’s like to be in the Father, and he in us.
**If taken as you do, then we also can claim to be God, receive worship, and make the claims that Christ does, because the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in us.**
No, we can’t claim to be God, or ‘God the sons’, but we can be ‘sons of God’. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God , they are the sons of God”. Rom. 8:14 See also: Phil. 2:15: 1John 3:1,2.
**Each of your “I say..” comments is based upon this one premise, which you’ve repeated each time you’ve posted to me.**
That’s a smooth way of saying’ “I’ve answered all your comments”, when you really haven’t. I made the previous post lengthy per your request...:
**All the following arguments after this quote were already responded to. You should probably try replying to it, if you want to continue.**
The three, below, ‘I say’ comments were only in the previous post, so here’s your chance to reply to those:
I say: Key phrase: ‘Son of God’, not ‘God the Son’. When Martha testified that “thou art the Christ, the Son of God..”, Jesus didn’t correct her (”excuse me, but I’m ‘God the Son’, Martha). Peter said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”. Jesus didn’t correct him and say, “No, I’m God the Son”. Once again, Jesus praying to the Father, “And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, ........AND........JESUS CHRIST, whom THOU hast SENT.” John 17:3
**Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:**
I say: The greatest teacher of all gave the disciples that commandment, and they promptly went about baptizing in the name of JESUS. Now, first of all, note that he says ‘name’ in the singular, not ‘names’. ‘Son’ is a title. “thou shalt call his NAME Jesus”. Luke 1:21. Jesus Christ said that his name is not his own (John 5:43), And Heb. 1:4 says that he inheritted it. “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the FATHER will SEND in MY NAME...”. Sooooo.......what name are YOU going to use to request the coming of the Holy Ghost?
AND........don’t forget Matthew 28:18; Jesus..spake...”All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in Earth” (that’s pretty much everywhere, and let’s see, who GAVE it unto him?......could it be the Father that dwelleth in him, and he in the Father?).
I say: Nice diversionary comment (to avoid answering the point I was making). No, you point out how the Son did all the saving and creating. That leaves the Father a little less than equal.
Who’s greater: The Son says, “My Father, which is GAVE them me, is GREATER then ALL..”. 10:29; and “..for my Father is GREATER than I..”. 14:28.
The Son credits the Father’s house as having many mansions. Example of separate and distinct theology: It’s the Father’s house, but Son built it, but it’s still the Father’s house.
You didn’t touch this either:
Food for thought: 17:1 A vine (Son) and a husbandman (the Father). The husbandman plants the vine and cares for it, etc..
OOPS, it’s chap 15, not 17.
The ‘husbandman’ gave the ‘vine’ it’s start, provides all it’s needs , and has the power to prune or even kill the vine. Of itself, the vine has no such power.
It’s so simple: The Father, in the sinless Christ without measure, makes him divine.
I go back in the truck in 7 hours, so it’s off to bed shortly.
“Well, I guess we need to go over it again, because it seems that you forgot this reply to your earlier quoting of John 14:20:”
No, I saw it, and it’s the 3rd or 4th time I’ve seen it. I basically ignore it, since it isn’t even a proper reply to the original objection to begin with.
“There’s a whole passage there where the Lord is telling them of the coming Comforter”
And, in your mind, which is desperately trying to make sense of an illogical position, that is significant. It isn’t to me. It is by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit in the first place that makes us a new creature in Christ Jesus. It essentially confirms the plain reading of this chapter that I provided previously.
“No, we can’t claim to be God, or ‘God the sons’, but we can be ‘sons of God’. “
According to you, Jesus Christ can claim to be God because the Father is in Him. Therefore, since the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in us, from your logic, we can claim to be God.
Luckily, I’m not a Oneness Pentecostal, so I can just read the scripture plainly and not have to make convoluted logic like that to explain what the scripture clearly says.
“You didn’t touch this either:”
To be honest, I skim through most of your posts and don’t really read them completely. If I don’t respond to every little thing, just assume that I thought it was insignificant or not worth commenting on, since other scriptures make my argument without going through the effort of untangling yours.
“It’s so simple:”
Yes, it REALLY is:
Joh 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God.