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To: Natural Law; boatbums

“The Bible was assembled by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church”


If by “Magisterium,” you mean the Apostles, then this was settled sometime within the 1st century with the help of their close associates, like Timothy. There’s no reason to think that the Apostles, knowing that their works are scripture, would leave them scattered across the world with no attempt to preserve them. Men like Polycarp and Ignatius, near the end of the first century or early in the second, were already quoting heavily from the New Testament liberally. Others, later in the second century, already had a firm position on what scriptures were genuine, based on what had already passed down amongst Christians even previous to them. For example, Melito, Bishop of Sardis (170AD):

“But in the Extracts made by him the same writer [i.e. Melito] gives at the beginning of the Introduction a catalog of the acknowledged books of the Old Testament, which it is necessary to quote at this point. He writes as follows: “Melito to his brother Onesimus, greeting! Since you have often, in your zeal for the Word, expressed a wish to have extracts made from the Law and the Prophets concerning the Saviour, and concerning our entire Faith, and have also desired to have an accurate statement of the ancient books, as regards their number and their order, I have endeavored to perform the task, knowing your zeal for the faith, and your desire to gain information in regard to the Word, and knowing that you, in your yearning after God, esteem these things above all else, struggling to attain eternal salvation. Accordingly when I went to the East and reached the place where these things were preached and done, I learned accurately the books of the Old Testament, and I send them to you as written below. These are their names: Of Moses five, Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, Deuteronomy; Joshua the son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, four of Kingdoms, 1 two of Chronicles, the Psalms of David, Solomon’s Proverbs or Wisdom, 2 Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Job; of the Prophets: Isaiah, Jeremiah, 3 the Twelve [minor prophets] in one book, Daniel, Ezekiel, Esdras. 4 From which also I have made the extracts, dividing them into six books.” Such are the words of Melito.” (Preserved in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History)

Footnotes at link: http://www.bible-researcher.com/melito.html

His work is only on the Old Testament, but of course there is no mention of the Apocrypha.

Here is Origen on the New Testament:

“So too our Lord, whose advent was typified by the son of Nun, when he came sent his apostles as priests bearing well-wrought trumpets. Matthew first sounded the priestly trumpet in his Gospel. Mark also, Luke and John, each gave forth a strain on their priestly trumpets. Peter moreover sounds loudly on the twofold trumpet of his epistles; and so also James and Jude. Still the number is incomplete, and John gives forth the trumpet-sound in his epistles and Apocalypse; 4 and Luke while describing the acts of the apostles. Lastly however came he who said, I think that God hath set forth us Apostles last of all, [1 Cor. 4:9] and thundering on the fourteen trumpets of his epistles threw down even to the ground the walls of Jericho, that is to say all the instruments of idolatry and the doctrines of philosophers.” Homilies on Joshua, viii. 1.

Origen, at this time, renders the epistle to the Hebrews as Paul’s work (which, from its writing, is most likely the case). Jerome appeals to the practice of the earliest Christians when he defends against your church’s denial of the epistle to the Hebrews during the 4th century, though he notes there are differences on who the writer may be:

“This must be said to our people, that the epistle which is entitled “To the Hebrews” is accepted as the apostle Paul’s not only by the churches of the east but by all church writers in the Greek language of earlier times, although many judge it to be by Barnabas or by Clement. It is of no great moment who the author is, since it is the work of a churchman and receives recognition day by day in the public reading of the churches. If the custom of the Latins does not receive it among the canonical scriptures, neither, by the same liberty, do the churches of the Greeks accept John’s Apocalypse. Yet we accept them both, not following the custom of the present time but the precedent of early writers, who generally make free use of testimonies from both works. And this they do, not as they are wont on occasion to quote from apocryphal writings, as indeed they use examples from pagan literature, but treating them as canonical and churchly works.” Letter to Dardanus, prefect of Gaul (Ad Dardanum, no. 129 § 3). A.D. 414.

In all of this, we see a pretty firm resolution on what is the Christian canon long before the RCC set to work. In fact, if it was up to the Latin Church, or to the Greeks, we might not have had either Revelation or Hebrews in our scripture!


1,187 posted on 05/21/2013 3:39:28 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"If by “Magisterium, you mean...”

I have no desire to continue this pointless discussion. Your opinions on which Scripture the Catholic Church decides to call canon, including deuterocanonical or even the "third canon" mentioned by St. Jerome, are of no consequence. After nearly 1700 years there ois no chance the Church is going to change its canon.

In fairness, which documents Protestantism assembles under their own authority, into a bound volume is of no more concern to me than the contents of the Guru Granth Sahib or the Book of Mormon, except to the degree to which they coincide with the Catholic canon or affirm a universal truth.

Peace be with you

1,189 posted on 05/21/2013 4:04:27 PM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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