******I’m not sure if you’re aware of your own argument. Your argument is that the Holy Spirit coming upon Cornelius and his family was necessary for Peter to “figure out” why he was there. Yet, you admit that Peter already “figured out” why he was there, per the scriptures I posted, which occurred before the Holy Spirit baptism/infilling.******
Rereading my own posts, I am well aware of my own argument and stand by it. My only mistake was including Peter with those who were with him who were astonished that the Holy Spirit came upon the Gentile, Cornelius.
I argued that Cornelius was a lesson for Peter as well as for us and thus, the Spirit coming upon him was not the norm. Why? Because Cornelius was not the norm. He was Gentile. I stand by what I said. The sequence of events supports it completely.
Cornelius is visited by the angel. Peter receives the vision but is unsure what the vision means. Cornelius does as the angel tells him and sends for Simon, also called Peter. In the meantime, Peter also receives a message to go when Cornelius sends for him, but he doesn’t know why. That is why he is told not to doubt, just to go.
When Peter arrives, he asks Cornelius the purpose of sending for him. Cornelius explains his interest in hearing about Jesus. Peter realizes that Cornelius knows about Jesus and believes in Him and that God means to include the Gentiles in the new covenant.
Upon his understanding the Holy Spirit confirms that Peter has correctly understood the vision and comes upon Cornelius and his household. Peter declares that baptism, and thus acceptance, is not to be withheld from the Gentiles and Cornelius and his household are baptized.
So, the norm is baptism, but there is an exception to the norm which only God can allow. My argument is that Peter had to understand before he would baptize. He would not have baptized them without first understanding God’s plan of including the Gentiles.
This does not negate Jesus’ command to baptize as we are still bound by that command. WE ARE, but God is not as He is accountable to no one but Himself.
*****According to Barnes’ commentary: “His breathing on them was a certain sign or pledge that they would be endowed with the influences of the Holy Spirit. Compare Act_1:4; John 2.”*****
Well Barnes is the one in error, for Scripture does not say in any way that the breathing on the Apostles was a promise of a future event.
The coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost supports the Catholic understanding that one receives the Holy Spirit once, but the gifts and understanding come over and over.
We are strengthened over and over in our faith by the Holy Spirit coming over us.
For example, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she conceived, but she was with the Apostles at Pentecost.
****Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)****
Jesus was glorified upon His resurrection. His words are “Receive the Holy Spirit” Pretty Clear words.
*****This was before Christ ascended to heaven, and after Christ breathed on them. The reference is to Pentecost.*****
Here is where the error lies. The Holy Spirit comes upon them and it is then that He influences them to preach and perform miracles and great signs and wonders. This could only happen after Jesus leaves them, because until then, they are being led by Jesus.
Jesus’ mission was fulfilled and now it was the time for the Holy Spirit to take over. But, there is not promise of receiving the Holy Spirit some time in the future, rather only the promise that the Holy Spirit would come to them in a way that leads them to truth and gives them power to bear great fruit.
*****Therefore, your argument that Cornelius did not receive the Holy Spirit fully until water baptism could fix it is false.******
That was never my argument.
****Those who fall away are never regarded as ever having been one of the Elect, as all true believers are incapable of falling away. For example:*****
Really? Yet Jesus says these branches which are cast off were part of the vine.
Jesus says, IF you abide in me, I will abide in you.
Read the parable of the seed and the soil.
I don’t have time right now to pull up all the verses in the NT where we are told to endure, to persist, to keep the faith.
I will try to do so another time, but suffice it to say for now, the Word of God does not support that a believer could not fall away.
*****To attempt to cooperate with God for the purpose of salvation, to maintain your “meritorious” deeds is the same as working, but Paul tells us that the reward for such deeds is not salvation, but always debt. The Law is simply not capable of bringing salvation, as through it is only the knowledge of sin.*****
One does not cooperate with God for the purpose of salvation, that is a gift freely given, but one must cooperate with God in order to remain in Him and have eternal life.
Paul says it quite well when he speaks of himself and the desire he has to not have run the race in vain, to have preached Jesus to others and not finished the race and claimed his crown.
God does not force salvation upon us, even when we are saved.
******Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.*****
IF it were possible. Meaning even the elect will be subject to these false ones, and if it were possible, meaning if the possibility exists, even the elect may fall prey to them.
This passage does not say it is not possible.
“I argued that Cornelius was a lesson for Peter “
The lesson was not for Peter, since Peter learned the lesson before the Holy Spirit fell. Since Peter did not need convincing, there was no impediment for water baptism, followed by the usual signs and wonders. The people witnessing it would have been just as struck, and no one would be able to question what the point of water baptism is since it’s allegedly to cause what they had just witnessed.
“Here is where the error lies.”
You did not address all the scriptures I quoted. Here’s another:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
This was right before Christ ascended to heaven, and therefore is after Christ breathed on them to “receive the Holy Ghost.”
You also ignore the other points which show that the signs and wonders that the Apostles received on Pentecost were indistinguishable from that which occurred to Cornelius. If Peter says it is the “same as us,” you cannot tell me what part of the Holy Spirit they still lacked that water baptism needed to complete.
“Really?”
Yes, really, unless you have a problem with the scriptures I quoted. They’re quite clear and already deal with your objections.
“One does not cooperate with God for the purpose of salvation, that is a gift freely given, but one must cooperate with God in order to remain in Him and have eternal life.”
You sounded scriptural for a moment, but then you contradict yourself. If we do not cooperate with God for the purpose of salvation, why are we cooperating with God “in order to remain in Him and have eternal life”? Salvation is to eternal life what eternal life is to salvation.
“God does not force salvation upon us, even when we are saved.”
There’s something strangely contradictory about the things you say here. But, that salvation is entirely by God, literally “forced” on us, is already demonstrated by the other scriptures I posted.
I’ll add that the reason why this is is because man, by his own nature, is simply incapable of seeking God or serving Him:
Rom 3:10-20 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (17) And the way of peace have they not known: (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes. (19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
This is another reason why we cannot attribute anything truly good in our lives as coming from ourselves, since there is nothing good in us that we do not receive from the Father.
“IF it were possible. Meaning even the elect will be subject to these false ones, and if it were possible, meaning if the possibility exists, even the elect may fall prey to them.”
If it were possible means that it isn’t possible. Jesus is telling us that the delusions would be so powerful that it could even deceive the elect... IF that were possible. It says nothing about the elect being subject to them at all.