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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Rules are from God and of God and for man. Man does not hold God to account, but is rather held to account by God.

That being said....

The norm is that one receives the Holy Spirit for the first time in baptism, but obviously there are instances in Scripture where that is not the case.

In the upper room, following His resurrection, Jesus breathes on the Apostles and says, “Receive the Holy Spirit” and yet the Holy Spirit comes upon them at Pentecost as well.

In baptism, one is born again, into a new life with Christ, becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit. One is also cleansed of all sin and becomes a child of God.


34 posted on 05/09/2013 8:05:07 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette

“Rules are from God and of God and for man. Man does not hold God to account, but is rather held to account by God.”


A statement which hurts your position, because if God is not bound to come upon the person who is or isn’t baptized in water, then it is the same thing as saying that the physical act has no power over God at all. The Roman Catholic position is that spiritual graces are dependent on Roman Catholic sacraments.

“In baptism, one is born again, into a new life with Christ, becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit. One is also cleansed of all sin and becomes a child of God.”


Since your arguments about Peter needing to be convinced were refuted, the basis of your argument is founded entirely upon Roman Catholic theology outside of scripture. As has been shown in other posts, salvation is by the sovereign will of God, and it is this understanding which explains why God is able to save Cornelius or the Thief on the cross prior or even without water baptism entirely. God is not bound to the actions of men, but rather moves according to His own grace and purpose given to us before the world began. There are no “exceptions” to this system, only wonderful rules which declare that salvation is of the LORD.

“In the upper room, following His resurrection, Jesus breathes on the Apostles and says, “Receive the Holy Spirit” and yet the Holy Spirit comes upon them at Pentecost as well.”


Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Peter states they had received the Holy Ghost in the same way they have. Unless you believe that the Holy Spirit only stays with the believer temporarily, or that the Holy Spirit filling a man is not the same as His being regenerated and baptized by the Spirit as promised by Christ Himself?

As for previously, it is clear that there is a tremendous difference between the Apostles before and after Pentecost. Before Pentecost, there were things they could not even understand. Even Peter played the coward and denied Christ three times. Yet, after Pentecost, that same Peter is boldly declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament period, the Holy Spirit’s presence with the individual was dependent and temporary. In the New Testament period, the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence in the believer.


35 posted on 05/09/2013 8:19:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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