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To: Natural Law
Since you have already rejected a discussion of the differences between Sanctifying and Actual Grace no explanation is possible. And to avoid further misrepresentation of my statements please do not attempt to reword them into Reformationist jargon. They stand on their own.

I didn't reject the discussion, in fact, I quoted Ludwig Ott in the use of those words. Did you skip that part?

Apparently your statements do not "stand on their own" since every attempt I have made to pin down exactly what is meant by the buzzwords/jargon you use, I have been met with yet another anti-Protestant canard that accuses me of distorting, misusing or rewording wrongly whatever it is you are trying to communicate. Do you think that continuing to repeat the same phrase gets us any closer to understanding you? What is wrong exactly with my interpretation of your words? Try to be specific since, obviously, we are talking past each other - unless you just enjoy the opportunity to patronize and ridicule.

253 posted on 05/04/2013 12:21:56 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"I didn't reject the discussion, in fact, I quoted Ludwig Ott in the use of those words. Did you skip that part?"

The pity is that those two paragraphs were evidently all you read of Ott's work. I happen to have a copy of Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. In it he preceded his discussion of Grace with the following definitions:

"Habitual grace is a constant supernatural quality of the soul which sanctifies man intrinsically and makes him just and pleasing to God (sanctifying grace or justifying grace). Actual grace or assisting grace or helping grace is a temporary supernatural intervention by God by which the powers of the soul are stirred up to perform a salutary act which is directed to the attaining or preservation or increase of sanctifying grace."

If you accept Ott as an expert (why else would you cite him?) perhaps you would comment on his comments on the Reformation's treatment of the subject:

"While Pelagius denied the supernatural endowment of man, Luther, who strained the doctrine of St. Augustine beyond its proper limits, made grace an essential constituent part of human nature. By its loss human nature was entirely corrupted, as its essential constituent parts were taken away and concupiscence, in which, according to Luther, original sin consists, has ever since ruled man. In Luther's view, therefore: fallen man is, of his own proper power, incapable of achieving knowledge of religious truth, or of performing morally good actions; Man's will is no longer free, and of itself can do nothing but sin ; Grace is not capable of saving or intrinsically renewing and sanctifying human nature, since this is fully and entirely vitiated; What justification effects is merely an external covering of man's sinful state but man himself remains changed intrinsically. Man's will is purely passive and does not cooperate with grace, grace alone performing the work of justification." C£ Luther, In Genesis., c. 19.

Peace be with you

261 posted on 05/04/2013 1:28:26 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave is a book, He left us a Church.)
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