“England was Catholic, yet Rome was also political and wanted Spain to invade and overthrow for political reasons”
Many in England wanted Spain to restore the Church. It wasn’t that cut and dried. Recall that Philip was Mary’s consort and King of Spain. After Mary died, and Elizabeth continued to attack the Catholic bishops in England, the Pope excommunicated her and the armada came to try to restore the heirarchy of the Catholic church in England.
“Yet the silly English paid for it and labored over it, and so they took it under standards of plunder and pillage of the time.”
Yeah, and? English!= Protestant. English Catholics built it. Henry stole it.
“particularly unproductive and unworthy of any debate whatsoever.”
Stolen property should be returned with interest accrued.
“raise an army and take it back, 16th-century style.”
Nah, we’ll wait for the Anglicans to gay themselves out and then buy it and get it back again. Won’t be long.
“Why would Cathedrals built before the reformation be anything but Catholic? Is there a point?”
The point being that they are rightfully Catholic property and should be returned to the Catholic church. Theft is theft.
“What you seem to be arguing against is that the reformation occurred at all.”
I’m saying they should return the property that was stolen from the Catholic church.
“The point is that 500 years ago, England had every reason to oppose the Catholic church”
What reason did they have? England was Catholic! Henry VIII had every reason to oppose the Church. Buth Henry VIII is not England, despite what Louis XIV might say.
“The exclusion of Catholicism in the Royal family is an anachronism - but indeed, so is the Monarchy itself.”
It’s not only an anachronism, it’s also a lie. The origin of the monarchy stems from their Catholic origins. Removing the final block of the test act and restoring the rightful line would go a long way to rectifying all the lies told many years ago.
“Ambivalence towards kings is an American tradition. The English Royal family means something to some in the UK and former British colonies, but they have no real political function.”
America is America. The UK is the UK. What goes for one does not necessarily go for the other.
“You” don’t have any more claim on that which is British than any other religion.”
Far from it. Like I said, we built it. The throne is a Catholic throne, and will eventually return.
“Many in England wanted Spain to restore the Church. It wasn’t that cut and dried.”
Oh but it was cut-and-dried, Henry was king. These were not pluralistic times anywhere in Europe.
“Yeah, and? English!= Protestant. English Catholics built it. Henry stole it.”
You are conveniently leaving out the political angle. Rome subverted England and Henry outmaneuvered them and separated from Rome politically - which meant that he had to necessarily separate religiously. That’s the way it was then.
“Stolen property should be returned with interest accrued.”
You’re being ridiculous. Not even the Catholic Church is calling for the return of this property.
“Nah, we’ll wait for the Anglicans to gay themselves out and then buy it and get it back again. Won’t be long.”
You’re awfully flippant towards others faith, even if they have blatant issues, and go beyond what the Catholic Church would even say about the CoE.
You’re not going to start a Catholic vs. Protestant war here - if you understood your history you wouldn’t even try.
“The point being that they are rightfully Catholic property and should be returned to the Catholic church. Theft is theft.”
Not gonna happen. The political entity no longer exists, it’s like trying to return property to the government of Prussia.
The cathedrals were paid for by the English to be used by the English. But feel free to litigate it, neither Rome nor London is suing for return of property. Why are you?
“What reason did they have? England was Catholic!” So now you are suing for the return of all of England? Read your history. Rome fumbled the political ball, underestimated their ability to control England, and overestimated Spain’s military capability. England left Romes political control, and the rise of the Nation State - free from the political bureaucracy and oppression of Rome, unprecedented prosperity and technological development ensued.
“Far from it. Like I said, we built it. The throne is a Catholic throne, and will eventually return.”
No, you didn’t build it, the English built it, they kept it, and nobody, except you, seems to have a problem with it.
Thrones are earthly errors and impediments to freedom of all kinds and edifices for tyranny. The Catholic Church of today recognizes this. They don’t want it back - not like that. They prefer to stick to enticing CoE members with a consistent religious message. They’ve had some notable success, but it’s far from clear whether it represents a significant stride towards a unified church. I don’t think it does.
Perhaps this discussion of Catholics being allowed within the monarchy one step at a time will help gain acceptance of conversion from CoE to Roman Catholicism. Who knows?
There aren’t any hornets in that hornets nest you keep poking at. Give it up.