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To: Zionist Conspirator; KC_Lion; jjotto
Before we go any further, do you know understand and regret that you posted this piece of anti-Polonic bigotry? It is a sin to propagate slander; it would be good for you to repent of it.

most of the laws are contained in the Oral Torah and include the rulings of the Sages. This is the authentic holy oral tradition which [Christianity] (the protestantism of its day) rejected

Yes. Christ did two things: (1) liberate Christians from the legalistic attituide to any law, regardless of whether the law, on some new level is upheld in Christianity and (2) repeat and often strengthen the natural-law core at the heart of the J-wish legalisms. So, Christianity obviously keeps the Ten Commandments (excluding the meaningless after the Incarnation prohibition against pictures of Christ and his saints), and moreover, Christ expanded the Ten commandments bringing it to the level even of thought.

For Catholics/Orthodox/what-have-you to turn around and then bash Protestants for not accepting their pathetic imitations is the height of hypocrisy.

There is no symmetry. The Christian world is not a line from past to present but a ray from the center, and the center is the Incarnation of God as Jesus Christ. So obviously the Jewish Old Testament is seen as pre-history of Christ and today we live in the post-history of the first Coming of Christ. J-daism is then a separate proto-religion now wholly consumed in Christianity and owing its independent of Christ existence to human inertia. Protestantism and other heresies as merely blimps on that glorious ray of history from the Incarnation to the Second Coming. They will either correct themselves or they will wither away, but they do not represent anything as cosmic as the Incarnation, the Cross and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Why does the [Resurrection of Jesus] negate the fact that the Torah says its commandments are eternal? Why doesn't the Torah say that it was only temporary until the "messiah" came to "fulfill" it?

First, Christianity does not reject every law. For example, the passages of Deuteronomy 13 regarding false prophets are very much the commandment of God today; no one rejects the foundational passages of God in relation to man -- including the promise of victory over death and Satan wrought by Christ by his sacrifice. What is roundly rejected is (I repeat) the legalistic attitude about Divine Law and the dietetic and ritualistic law of the Torah given specifically the Jews anyway. Here are the operative passages:

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity. (Galatians 5:6)

...there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. [14] But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. [15] And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common. (Acts 10:13-15).

...it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things: [29] That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. (Acts 15:28-29)

In the last passage especially you can see the Catholic Church speaking in the name of God and sorting out diverse commandments of the Old Testament age in application to the Age of the Church.

A Jewish child knows more about the Torah than you will ever know.

Here I need to clarify my previous post. I did not intend to claim that I in my personal scholarship exceed any J-w in the knowledge of the Old Testament. Obviously there are levels of both textual knowledge and systematic theological training not attained by most,-- or perhaps all, -- Catholics. I meant a different thing: that an illiterate Mexican grandmother (forget me, a sinner) has the depth of the understanding of the Old Testament not by virtue of any learning but by virtue of being Catholic and being holy. You count the prohibitions and authorizations; she knows what it means because the Spirit of God in her Church taught her.

you don't want a "literalist" like me in your church, do you?

Of course I do. I want you all to be saved and come to the knowledge of God.

Whatever happened to "once Catholic, always Catholic"?

Everyone validly baptized (even outside of the visible Catholic Church) is indelibly Catholic by baptism and is lead by God to salvation. But he can resist God even to the point of apostasy and then be lost, for God is not going to save anyone against his will. Such a man is in a different situation than one never baptized who often is prevented by coming to the Church due to a cultural or ethnic bias.

Your implicit insistence that the [Resurrection of Jesus] automatically "makes it obvious" that the Torah was only temporary and a "pedagogue" leading to [Christianity] is an example of the logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent." Did you ever study logic or argumentation?

Once again, all the claims of [Christianity] fail to take into consideration that the Torah claims to be eternal and does not provide for [Christianity]. Therefore [Christianity] is false, whether Jesus rose from the dead or not.

Jesus did rise from the dead, despite those who believed in the Torah "not providing" for Him succeeding in killing Him. So therefore, if one accepts the fact of His resurrection, -- which is a matter not of blind faith but examination of historical evidence, -- then he knows that either the Torah is false or those reading the Torah so devotedly do not understand it. Indeed, the Church He set up to lead us likewise to resurrection understands the Torah and proclaims it inerrant. They, -- I, -- can teach you what is in the Torah.

74 posted on 04/20/2013 11:56:36 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; Zionist Conspirator
Thank you both very much for your heartfelt Pings.

I have been reading every one.

You both literately represent 2 two sides of my life growing up, my Jewish and Catholic sides.

You both make very well thought out an intentioned arguments and we all are better for this discussions and conversations.

They bring us closer to G-d!

76 posted on 04/21/2013 6:40:18 AM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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